Hi,

I just looked at the new features of Cubase 5 and I must say that one thing really makes me think that I might better switch (although I just upgraded to Sonar 8)

VST Expression

This feature seems to be soemthing like human playback in finale. Here is the link which describes the feature in detail:

http://www.steinberg.net/en/products/musicproduction/cubase5_product/cubase5_newfeatures/cubase5_newfeatures_4.html

Now my question: are there any plan to include a similar feature into Sonar. This is soemthing really needed if you want to make full use or orchestra sample libs (together with better natation features).

I really hope it will come soon. As a Cakewalk user from v2 (midi only) I would really regret to leave the platform.

Cheers, drjee

Have you tried NTONYX Style Enhancer that used to come with Sonar? Check the Sonar website. Now its a plugin for $59.

In which way do you think that the style enhancer is similar to VST Expression? It seems that they do completely different stuff.

GPO can do this kind of thing. It works much the same way if I understand how the enhancer works. It only works with certain libs I believe It may work only with Steinberg samples and synths.

Hi John,

I do not have Cubase 5 but from what I understood (by theinformation given and watching the video) this is a feature implemented on the host side (and cannot be implemented or substituted by using a plugin of any kind). It seems that midi notes can be assigned an additinal attribute (in addition to pitch, volume etc.): the expression (you can do this in the piano roll, or, in the staff view using notation elements). And you can define how this expression is trigger for the library you are using. It preconfgured for the stuff Steinberg offers, but you can define it for any lib yourself, and I am sure library producers will soon offer configuration files for their libs. This approach is great since, of course, one could eg draw key switches in the piano roll in Sonar. But when I want to replace my instrument with another, it sure will have completly different key switch assignment. But with VST expression, you just can replce it, no need for further editiing (if the 2 products offer a similar amount of expressions). I beleive this is a very advantageous approach, and I really do not understand way Sonar platinum forum members cannot see it. We as Sonar users should make the company take the challenge instead of saying (without any knowledge): just use this or that.

cheers, drjee

In your original post you ask "are there any plan to include a similar feature into Sonar?

This is a peer to peer forum so we don't know what the team at Cakewalk are planning on doing.

To quote you again "We as Sonar users should make the company take the challenge instead of saying (without any knowledge): just use this or that."

There's no reason why you couldn't put in a feature request for this or any other things you'd like to see added. Its clear that the folks at Cakewalk do listen to their users so why not give it a try. Instead of just hoping that it will happen you could play a part in ensuring it will if its such an important feature for you.

Clearly SONAR doesn't have this feature at the moment so i guess the responders to this thread were just making suggestions as to how you might achieve a similar effect with what SONAR currently has.

I do not have Cubase 5 but from what I understood (by theinformation given and watching the video) this is a feature implemented on the host side (and cannot be implemented or substituted by using a plugin of any kind). It seems that midi notes can be assigned an additinal attribute (in addition to pitch, volume etc.): the expression (you can do this in the piano roll, or, in the staff view using notation elements). And you can define how this expression is trigger for the library you are using. It preconfgured for the stuff Steinberg offers, but you can define it for any lib yourself, and I am sure library producers will soon offer configuration files for their libs. This approach is great since, of course, one could eg draw key switches in the piano roll in Sonar. But when I want to replace my instrument with another, it sure will have completly different key switch assignment. But with VST expression, you just can replce it, no need for further editiing (if the 2 products offer a similar amount of expressions). I beleive this is a very advantageous approach, and I really do not understand way Sonar platinum forum members cannot see it. We as Sonar users should make the company take the challenge instead of saying (without any knowledge): just use this or that.

cheers, drjee

Maybe you misunderstood what I was saying. GPO does exactly the same thing with the same technique. This is not something that has to be built into the sequencer. It only needs sample libraries that will respond to these added key switches. If this were standardized now as per say GPO for example then it could be applied to any sample without any modification to the host program. Its really no different in concept to velocity layering of samples. Aftertouch is not often used by most samplers yet its also is a technique for similar control. MIDI has enormous control ability inherent to it. The problem here are the sample makers that do little to exploit the power in MIDI. The hardware MIDI synth guys have been doing stuff like this for a long time. Its really nothing new as far as I can tell.

ORIGINAL: John
GPO can do this kind of thing. It works much the same way if I understand how the enhancer works. It only works with certain libs I believe It may work only with Steinberg samples and synths.

Well, any keyswitched sample library "works the same way", but the point is you can't tell which articulation you've chosen by looking at Sonar's piano roll. The little extra text labels are really nice. Also, the fact that you can look at a notation window and use traditional articulation markings...and the appropriate keyswitch message is routed automatically to the correct key is a nce feature.

Sibelius allows for similar control of GPO (and VSL...?). However, in practice, all the "humanization" stuff really doesn't sound nearly as convincing as a real-teime MIDI performance that has had its data tweaked.

That said, the "slop" feature that is found in the DVZ string library looks interesting though.

ORIGINAL: mudgel



There's no reason why you couldn't put in a feature request for this or any other things you'd like to see added. Its clear that the folks at Cakewalk do listen to their users so why not give it a try. Instead of just hoping that it will happen you could play a part in ensuring it will if its such an important feature for you.

I did so, but I hoped other users would join me instead of pointing to to other apps (that in fact do not provide the same funtionality)

why not watch the video? Then you will realize that this is indeed something new (the closest thing being human playback in Finale, but DFinale does not have a piano roll).

GPO, which I own, does not have it, since it's a host feature and GPO is no host.