• SONAR
  • Isn't it Time? Sonar X2 on OSX
2013/04/19 18:18:11
Brad Russell
I know. I know. Another thread on Sonar on the Mac platform? Why, Right?

Well, I've been a Cakewalk/Sonar user since Sonar 1. I've made most of the upgrades. For years I was a hold out. I didn't want anything to do with apple products. All of my friends in the music biz said, "you should get a mac." I said, "no." I built machines, bought new gear, tweaked my pc, just like everyone else. I was constantly in search of a powerful setup that would run reliably. I had pride in being a loyal Cakewalk customer, and told anyone who would listen about this great company who cared about their customers and made great, under-appreciated products. I currently have a Custom i5/Asus computer, running X2, a Presonus Firestudio, and the VS 700C controller. I've invested lots of time, money, and energy into being a Cakewalk user. 

A few years ago, I got a new job. My employer bought me a macbook pro as my daily office computer. I thought I'd try Logic, so I started trying it out, and it was really cool. Still, most of my work was in Sonar 8, so I just ran 2 machines. Logic was just for fun. Sonar was for my serious work. Time went on. I found myself working in OSX more and more. Switching to my Windows machine was less and less common and became increasingly annoying. I found myself needing to use my mac for other work tasks while working on projects in Sonar. It was frustrating moving between machines. I wanted to run my recording projects and do my daily work from the same machine, but I didn't want my main workflow for recording to be based on a laptop. I like a desktop setup much better.  So, I set up my PC to run OSX. I ran Logic and other daily work apps on the Hackintosh. The only thing I do on the Win7 partition is use Sonar. We multitrack each week in Sonar. I bring the project to my office for editing/mixing. It's so annoying to have to boot into windows to do this. 

It seems like Cakewalk is missing something here. The Apple marketshare has been steadily increasing over the last 10 years. That's not a trend I see changing. More and more people are either switching to the mac or they are being introduced to computers on the mac. Since the days of the PC vs. Mac debate are really over, shouldn't every DAW be available on both platforms? If Reaper can do it, why can't Cakewalk? If all the other DAWs can do it, why can't Cakewalk.

For the first time, I'm seriously considering abandoning my DAW of choice because it has become too much of a pain to use. Expanding Cakewalk's OSX development just makes good sense. Here's an example: When I spent $2000 on a control surface, I opted for the VS 700C because it was designed for Sonar AND it had mac drivers. It didn't work all that well out of the box with Logic, but it gave me basic functionality UNTIL I upgraded to Lion. No compatible driver. So, I was stuck with a huge control surface on my desk that only works with a program I only use a small part of the time. What did I do? Unplugged my VS 700C and put it back in the box. That's a pain. If Cakewalk devoted resources to OSX development, I might have a control surface that actually helps me. 

Anyway, fire away with all your "If you love your mac so much, just switch and leave us alone" rants. Just wondering how many of you feel the way I do. I would LOVE to see Sonar X2 on OSX!
2013/04/19 18:28:19
John
Yes this would be a good time to start an Apple Sonar version. After all X2a is so ingrained into MS technology that it shouldn't be hard to port it over. Forget touch support or support for all MS driver models. Never mind that one big reason that CW is often first with support for MS developments is due to its very close relationship. But forget all that your boss gave you a mac and that was all it took. We should all petition CW to go apple because you got a mac. 

I just got Windows 8 when is apple going to port Logic over to Windows 8?
2013/04/19 18:44:33
Brad Russell

Yeah, yeah...great. I get it. Cakewalk made its choice a long time ago. They are committed to their platform. Great. The point is not that I got a Mac. The point is...The WORLD is getting a Mac. Again, yeah, the touch integration in Win8 is awesome. That's probably one reason I'm not going to see Lion (and now Mountain Lion) support for my control surface that was advertised to work on OSX. Here's the bigger question there: Do you think touch screen is the way of the future in the Pro Audio world? Is everyone just going to put a touch screen in the middle of their work flow? I don't see it happening, at least not for a long while. Of course, as you've already made clear, I could be wrong.

On your other point: If Cakewalk were a division of Microsoft I might see your point here, but Cakewalk, last time I checked is competing in the DAW market. Clearly, Windows based DAWs are not the dominant trend, nor will they be. It's only getting more and more obvious. For whatever reason, Apple doesn't seem all that motivated to put priority on development for Logic. That's a shame. A better question might be, "When is Apple going to release a major update to Logic?" That may have more impact on what happens in the future with Sonar than anything else.
2013/04/19 18:57:34
rabeach
No but it is about time that the two most prominent operating systems in the world be redesigned to run all applications. I mean we went to the moon with the equivalent of a digital watch.
2013/04/19 18:59:05
John
Brad Russell


Yeah, yeah...great. I get it. Cakewalk made its choice a long time ago. They are committed to their platform. Great. The point is not that I got a Mac. The point is...The WORLD is getting a Mac. Again, yeah, the touch integration in Win8 is awesome. That's probably one reason I'm not going to see Lion (and now Mountain Lion) support for my control surface that was advertised to work on OSX. Here's the bigger question there: Do you think touch screen is the way of the future in the Pro Audio world? Is everyone just going to put a touch screen in the middle of their work flow? I don't see it happening, at least not for a long while. Of course, as you've already made clear, I could be wrong.

On your other point: If Cakewalk were a division of Microsoft I might see your point here, but Cakewalk, last time I checked is competing in the DAW market. Clearly, Windows based DAWs are not the dominant trend, nor will they be. It's only getting more and more obvious. For whatever reason, Apple doesn't seem all that motivated to put priority on development for Logic. That's a shame. A better question might be, "When is Apple going to release a major update to Logic?" That may have more impact on what happens in the future with Sonar than anything else.

Man your post makes me think what a very insightful person. You got all that I was saying seemingly with ease. I also like the way you can discuss this without any angst. You deserve a better posting than I can deliver. No wonder you are one of the old guard. We joined at the same time.

I don't see a problem with touch being in a studio because at some point it will be hard to fine a non touch display. Apple may be doing very well but MS is still the no. 1 in OS deployment. When MS puts out a new OS they do so in the millions. Apple only in hundred of thousands.

The market for an OS is dominated and near controlled by MS. That is not going to change any time soon. Without Apple MS would be in real trouble because they would be seen as a monopoly.

You can bet MS does not want Apple to go anywhere. You can also bet that a touch screen is in your future.  



 
2013/04/19 19:51:32
BlixYZ
i want them to do it.   i dont even know if i would buy a mac.  i just think it would be a boon for a company i love.   i dont see the down side.  i think mac users would embrace sonar.  the more i think about it, its crazy not to.
2013/04/19 23:00:45
Brad Russell
BlixYZ


i want them to do it.   i dont even know if i would buy a mac.  i just think it would be a boon for a company i love.   i dont see the down side.  i think mac users would embrace sonar.  the more i think about it, its crazy not to.

Yeah, It seems really obvious to me.
2013/04/19 23:37:16
Brad Russell
Man your post makes me think what a very insightful person. You got all that I was saying seemingly with ease. I also like the way you can discuss this without any angst. You deserve a better posting than I can deliver. No wonder you are one of the old guard. We joined at the same time. 


I don't see a problem with touch being in a studio because at some point it will be hard to fine a non touch display. Apple may be doing very well but MS is still the no. 1 in OS deployment. When MS puts out a new OS they do so in the millions. Apple only in hundred of thousands. 


The market for an OS is dominated and near controlled by MS. That is not going to change any time soon. Without Apple MS would be in real trouble because they would be seen as a monopoly. You can bet MS does not want Apple to go anywhere. You can also bet that a touch screen is in your future.  



Yeah, I've been around here for a long time. It's funny that I joined the forum so long ago but have so few posts. I'm not all that insightful, sometime downright obtuse. I remember you well, John. There doesn't seem to be all that many of us around anymore. 


I suppose you're right about touch displays. Apple is either really late to the party there or they've just made a gamble that it will not be a factor with their customers. Probably the latter, since they don't seem to miss much. When you say Apple only sells in the hundreds of thousands, I'm not following you. In 2012, Apple sold 4 million Macs in Q3 and 4 million again in Q4. Each of those machines obviously shipped with OSX. Now, I know that 8 million units is far less than the 60 million units sold of Win 8 MS has sold since October, but when you consider Apple's growth in the new computer sales category, It seems that ultimately MS OS marketshare is declining (especially in the subset of the pro market). For Cakewalk (it would seem to me) the pro audio market would be the most important sector to consider. 


All in all, I guess you're right. It comes down to the fact that the world doesn't revolve around me. Companies make value based decisions regarding this stuff, and Cakewalk, up to this point has not placed value upon competing with OSX based DAWS. If that makes my life harder, I've got a simple choice to make. Stinks tho. What makes it more problematic is the fact that Apple seems bent on focusing on the consumer market, and innovations for the pro market have taken a back seat, hence, no updated MacPro and no Logic Pro X. May be time to start looking for options. One thing is for sure, after the last few days of "tweaking" my Windows set up, I am ready to get away from the MS world. All the security updates and rebooting. I had forgotten how much time I wasted waiting on my computer.




2013/04/20 00:03:06
John
  One thing you haven't brought into this conversation is the Roland factor. It seems to me even though Roland and CW have been close for a very long time now that they own CW it would seem better for them if their software were cross platform. They support Apple just as much as they do Windows so it would seem likely CW may get some pressure from Roland to port. 

So I don't believe its a sure thing that CW wont at some point go both ways.

Somehow talking with a rational Mac user is more fun then I ever thought.  

You need to post a lot more.


2013/04/20 00:53:53
cyclops
Wow!  Good discussion :)

I used to use Cakewalk between Pro Audio 7 all the way up until about Sonar 7.  At that point, a Mac and OS X entered my orbit.  Logic didn't do it for me, and I always wanted Sonar on the Mac.  Studio One seems to be my 'stop gap' software.

You guys bring up a good point.  Roland as a company supports both OS X and Windows.  They'd be fools not to.  But, the recording software that they own only does Windows.  That's probably a pretty big strike against them right now.  Look at Yamaha / Steinberg, Presonus, or Avid / M-Audio (yes, I know they split up).  Everyone else bundles a DAW that runs on both OS X and Windows.  Heck, even MOTU ported Digital Performer to Windows, and that's been a heavily entrenched OS X DAW.

If I had to guess, I bet Cakewalk is working on an OS X version.  They are the only remaining single platform DAW out there.  Even SoundForge went OS X.  Roland needs to have it work on both platforms for their hardware bundles.

If Sonar for OS X shows up... I'll buy it.  :)
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