So, I guess were talking about two different things.

1. The software company (Cakewalk) writes a version of their code to work on the Mac OS. That would work fine, but all responsibility falls on Cakewalk.

2. The OS Maker creates some sort of environment within which code written for a different OS can work efficiently.

It's case 2 that I'm saying has a number of tricky points. It has a big payoff for lots of apps, but few of that collection have performance as a high priority like Audio and Video Apps.

Case 2 has to share hardware with two environments. So, apps running natively in the OS may try to use the Sound Card as may apps running in the guest OS Environment. There has to be some co-ordination of the data streams. Listening to a Sonar recording and playing an MP3 through the Native MP3 player.

It just gets tricky, I think. It's not impossible.

I think it makes all the sense in the world to make your PC bootable to either OS. In that case, the apps are running natively. 

I don't think it would work to boot to both OS's at the same time and be able to run apps concurrently in either OS. Usually you have to boot to one or the other. You don't want 2 OSes competing for the same resources.

Thanks Keni,


  that's the post I was looking for.  Most if not all DAWs like a really clean environment to run in, so teh actual OS is not too important, as long as you can use your choice of machine imo.  THe one area I see where Mac can make inroads for audio use is in laptops as the windows laptops have pretty much abandoned firewire whereas MacBook pros still have it (or thunderbolt which works).


I own a Studiolive which I use for recording and live use.  I am completely happy with a windows based PC at home, but may well consider a Mac for my next laptop for capturing audio in a live situation.  Which OS I boot too is not really relevant as I won't be checking my email at the time (that's what phones are for :)


Cheers


Grif

Keni


Excuse me for jumping in, but it's also becoming less important for Cakewalk to bother with a Mac version..

I am currently using a Mac Pro boot camped to Win7Pro with no problems and I've been told that ther are others using 3rd party software a to run Sonar while running OSX...

Now others are working at applying Wineskin and the likes to make this evn more simple and productive...

Maybe the solution is no longer necessarily in the hands of the program developers and will shortly run on either platform to begin with.

We're all seeing how both OS's are adapting many of each others characteristics and I'm currently thinking that we will soon see both of them running either platform's programs natively...

So I'm guessing that MS & Apple will be the one's to solve the issue at last...

It seems to be in either/both of their' best interests to do so...

I have and use both platforms and don't see a reason for the two not to find this common ground...

Just my 2 cents...

Keni

Brad Russell


The point is...The WORLD is getting a Mac. Again, yeah, the touch integration in Win8 is awesome.

No the point is the world is not getting a Mac - If it was there would be no need for expensive marketing campaigns trying to steer public perception and force "consumer trends". MOTU's decision to develop a Windows version of DP8 is interesting because it can only be reflecting a shift in the market place which has already happened.


What MOTU have also developed is a really cool controller App for the iphone/ipad/ipod touch which is truly useful to DP users even if it is just to have a wireless transport controller in your under-the-stairs sound booth (while you fight the hoover off with a trombone). That's the point - the world IS getting an ipad and MOTU are on the case.


I actually think a lot of MAC users would go for a Mac port of Sonar but I reckon there are more potential sales out there for a tablet controller App for ipad & Android and maybe Mini Sonar Apps for these platforms. Z3TA controller App anyone?


Interesting thread - excuse me a minute... "Hey Cakewalk, what are you doing about all these tablets and stuff?"


Regards
Simon

SteveGriffiths


Thanks Keni,


that's the post I was looking for.  Most if not all DAWs like a really clean environment to run in, so teh actual OS is not too important, as long as you can use your choice of machine imo.  THe one area I see where Mac can make inroads for audio use is in laptops as the windows laptops have pretty much abandoned firewire whereas MacBook pros still have it (or thunderbolt which works).


I own a Studiolive which I use for recording and live use.  I am completely happy with a windows based PC at home, but may well consider a Mac for my next laptop for capturing audio in a live situation.  Which OS I boot too is not really relevant as I won't be checking my email at the time (that's what phones are for :)


Cheers


Grif

Keni


Excuse me for jumping in, but it's also becoming less important for Cakewalk to bother with a Mac version..

I am currently using a Mac Pro boot camped to Win7Pro with no problems and I've been told that ther are others using 3rd party software a to run Sonar while running OSX...

Now others are working at applying Wineskin and the likes to make this evn more simple and productive...

Maybe the solution is no longer necessarily in the hands of the program developers and will shortly run on either platform to begin with.

We're all seeing how both OS's are adapting many of each others characteristics and I'm currently thinking that we will soon see both of them running either platform's programs natively...

So I'm guessing that MS & Apple will be the one's to solve the issue at last...

It seems to be in either/both of their' best interests to do so...

I have and use both platforms and don't see a reason for the two not to find this common ground...

Just my 2 cents...

Keni

Hi Grif...

I'm glad if it helps you for sure... And as I have little use for OSX myself, I'm perfectly happy to boot into Windows and forget about it...

But I hate going back and forth between the two OS's when the need arises...

I truly believe that if either camp decided to support both platforms within a single OS it would be not only do-able, but a lot easier than some might expect... Why they haven't done this must have other reasons as the programming can't be the obstacle...

...nor is the routing of audio in/out of any particular program. It should be reasonable to make the OS question the programs needs when loading an individual program and supplying it with the needed paths and access...

I think Apple is already onto this hence bootcamp as a first foray into this.. I expect in the near future Mac will have an updated bootcamp (or a replacement) that makes this happen... They need to compete with the couple of companies already doing this as ad-ins, but it really needs to be ahndled within/by the OS itself to be efficient...

(I believe)...

In the meantime I'm very happy with my Windows/Mac system as it's the best I've yet had in any camp!

Keni

I think if Sonar was on OSX it would be really appreciated in the DAW world where its about more features rather than stability. Cakewalk introduces great features they might not always work right but they bring in great features and do it first. 

I have to work with guys using cubase on mac. I like to work with them. As a longtime Sonar user, it was a steep learning curve to get into this (different os and different daw) Learning mac os was simple (man, what a difference to some things in the pc world!) learning cubase is another story, but if you work with daws it's not such a great challenge. I would like the idea of Sonar running natively on mac (i could abonden all the big pc machines...) and i could easily convince the cubase mates using sonar ;-) cheers Michael

actually think a lot of MAC users would go for a Mac port of Sonar but I reckon there are more potential sales out there for a tablet controller App for ipad & Android and maybe Mini Sonar Apps for these platforms. Z3TA controller App anyone?

Those are actually great ideas. I still think it's sad though. Even here on a user forum for a product aimed at the "pro-sumer" market, users are actually arguing against expansion of their DAW platform into the largest sector of the professional market, in favor of a consumer product for a tablet. 


To me, when it comes to sales numbers, you've hit on the real issue that's muddying the water for all of us. PC sales are in decline. Consumers are opting for portable devices. That's exactly why I think a software developer who specializes in powerful features for a powerful computer should try and make their product a viable option for all of the pro market on both platforms. Cakewalk seems to have built their business around home studio users who are also computer geeks (I count myself among that number, so don't throw anything at me). With every mac selling with garage band right out of the box, I don't see that as a growing market for windows developers. Everyone under the age of 20 who wants a computer for Christmas wants a Mac.  Overwhelmingly, young people looking to get into recording opt for a mac, even if they have to buy a used one.

IMHO,declining pc sales is worse news for Cakewalk than it is for any of their competitors, especially Apple. Logic has been in the top 5 grossing apps on the app store since they offered that method of delivery.

Brad : "Everyone under the age of 20 who wants a computer for Christmas wants a Mac. "

That's a pretty strong statement :-)

In my experience, not everyone wants to get ripped off.

I've gone back to university and macs are the minority among the kids I see.

Ditto...  I can't say I know anyone under 20 (or over) who specifically wants or wanted a MAC.  Rather, they all have Windows laptops because that's what they (or their parents) can afford to buy.   And they work just fine with i-tunes... because most also have ipods and/or iphones.       That's the only place I personally ever see the Apple logo. 
 
I do get the pro market perspective though.    At the same time, I'm assuming there's no good business case or Cakewalk/Roland would have already ventured in that direction.  

My 2 cents: Steinberg made Wavelab Mac OSX capable, because they saw the added business. There are some DAWs that only work with Mac, and almost none that work with Linux. Windows is still, to this day #1 in the OS market. Apple is (or was) the world's largest company, forget just a computer manufacturer. These are just the knowns. 

I believe it would make sense to add staff to port Sonar over to the Mac. If you're ever going to get a Pro-Tools user to try Sonar out, this is a good way to do that. Unfortunately, Apple's direction is very secretive, which makes their products unpredictable to some extent. Microsoft rarely is secretive to that extent. 

Cakewalk can decide to make Sonar for the Mac, and I suspect this could be something for X3. They would increase their sales, I believe, but the hardware IS expensive. Usually, anyone who buys a Mac Pro, for example, has the $ to go the ProTools route, not taking chances on something new. If it were me, I'd lean heavily toward PT for the Mac. I live in Nashville, and all of my friends who have Mac DAW's use PT or Logic.  However, they would give Sonar a try on the Mac, sure. They just wouldn't reach for it as the first one to grab when purchasing a $3,000 Mac Pro.  If Cakewalk wants Sonar on the Mac, they'd better get started soon, and they will definitely need to work out the kinks. I find Apple users far less tolerant to bugs than Windows users. 

Ubuntu can forget it for now. Unfortunately, there is a very VERY tiny DAW market there, and most studio engineers would rather not have to deal with Linux. They don't have time. Ubuntu is rock solid, and I love it (I use 10.04 and 12.04 LTS servers every day), but it's still got a ways to go to be really DAW and DAW hardware-friendly. Believe me, I wish this were not the case.