Brad : "Everyone under the age of 20 who wants a computer for Christmas wants a Mac. " That's a pretty strong statement :-)

True. I did resort to a degree of hyperbole in that statement.

In my experience, not everyone wants to get ripped off. I've gone back to university and macs are the minority among the kids I see.

And, you have employed the same device :)


I said, they WANT a mac for Christmas. I didn't say they were getting them. My 15 year old saved up his money for over a year to buy a macbook pro. 

I work in a pretty large church, so I've got lots of students and young adults working with me. Lots of them do video editing, audio recording, graphic design, etc. I can't think of one that uses a windows machine. In the last month, I've been working with a kid who is crazy talented. He wants to get into recording. He already has a laptop with sonar LE. He bought a used macbook pro to run Garageband. 

I own a MacPro as it was a gift...

...and I enjoy it very much running Win7Pro.

But I would not be looking for one if I was shopping to buy.

I wish we could get over the constant banter of PT being "pro" and everything else not.

Yes, many large studios have opted for it fr a variety of reasons, but in the pro world of lessening/vanishing "big" studios, we are also seeing studios that support both win/OSX work with assorted clients and the extreme variety of work that happens...

One big reason fr supporting PT in a studio is that they get to charge more!

I have been in the studio business for over 40 years and I remember other similar situations... People/studios used to say the sae about adat support... Which went where?

People use whatever works for them and for every "under 20" that only wants a Mac, there are dozens of times more that are too musically determined to wait for it and dig into the lower cost simply to work.

Yes... Garage band free is a boon to people starting with a Mac... Wonderful entry level... As s Audacity on either platform....

Companies compete for sure... but as in chess, all moves are not easily read! ;-)

For me, I believe that any path can be successful given the right turn of the world...

I just want Cakewalk to fix the many issues with Lanes and I can carry on with my life as a musician as I don't want to be a businessman... ;-)

Keni

Personally, I don't like the adage of PT being "Pro", either. However, a few things do set them apart from the others, such as a wider range of controller options designed specifically for PT, even if they can be used with other DAW's (we're talking huge mixing desks). They also support satellite feeds and better audio networking than most. The ideal customer base for PT are the studios that have a staff, where the sessions need to be easily shared between desktops and facilities, not that Sonar can't do this on a shared network drive. 

Also, AVID has invested a lot in tailored hardware that can be bundled and used seamlessly with the DAW, and this obviously puts them in a better position to make their DAW more efficient and bug-free, which is good for their reputation in the market--and for higher rates charged.

I'm not defending PT as "Pro", though, it just ends up that way with most people. As the CPUs get faster and higher sampling rates and Bit-engines become diminishing in returns, we're going to see all that change.

In the book by "Mixerman", Zen and the Art of Mixing, he indicates the Mastering realm is really the only industry left in which you can reliably place some emphasis on how serious and successful the engineer is based on his equipment, and whether or not this is all he does and nothing else. The mixing market is less and less that way, since the technology and DAW advances have gotten so good. PT has definitely got their work cut out for them.

brconflict


Personally, I don't like the adage of PT being "Pro", either. However, a few things do set them apart from the others, such as a wider range of controller options designed specifically for PT, even if they can be used with other DAW's (we're talking huge mixing desks). They also support satellite feeds and better audio networking than most. The ideal customer base for PT are the studios that have a staff, where the sessions need to be easily shared between desktops and facilities, not that Sonar can't do this on a shared network drive. 

Also, AVID has invested a lot in tailored hardware that can be bundled and used seamlessly with the DAW, and this obviously puts them in a better position to make their DAW more efficient and bug-free, which is good for their reputation in the market--and for higher rates charged.

I'm not defending PT as "Pro", though, it just ends up that way with most people. As the CPUs get faster and higher sampling rates and Bit-engines become diminishing in returns, we're going to see all that change.

In the book by "Mixerman", Zen and the Art of Mixing, he indicates the Mastering realm is really the only industry left in which you can reliably place some emphasis on how serious and successful the engineer is based on his equipment, and whether or not this is all he does and nothing else. The mixing market is less and less that way, since the technology and DAW advances have gotten so good. PT has definitely got their work cut out for them.

Hi Brian...

I agree with much of what you said...

I had hoped that Cakewalk was gonna go more in that direction as Avid and Fairlight did... they started to with the VS700 stuff, but didn't build it to the "performing arts" range and it sits pretty much as a project studio alternative only...

Roland's foray into the live digital board is quite good, but their approach hasn't been "bought" by those situations/venues. Avid devoted more resources to that field and have very few competitors (tho More are always emerging)...

As so many use PT already, it's an easy transition to their' boards whether live or in the studio...

For me? If I was entering that realm in a distributed studio I'd go for the Fairlight as it surpasses everybody as they've been doing this far longer...

For live I'd probably use a Digico or Studer Vista.... and Sonar of course! ;-)

It just seems to me that people now more than ever do their work in such a diversified manner (recordings) that the advantage of the large studios is far smaller... and as an old-time studio owner, I know that tech always changes and that what matters most is can the studio handle the work/needs. Can they transport between locations with a given project...

I know there are problems of sorts with OMF, projects have always needed to deal with issues when changing locations... Remember calibrating 2" machines to a clients tape? Or transferring from Something or other to/from ADAT ...or Sony digital....

A studio can always rent the extra hear if a client needs it so while being a "PT Studio" once meant more dependable. I don't think it still can hold that claim... and I know that their' major releases always have many bugs.... Notoriously in the past... They're no different than anyone else in that arena...

But enuf of this rant... ;-) As to the subject of this thread...

I'd love it if Sonar did release a Mac/IOS version.... I'm sure no one would complain? ;-)

Keni

I think this argument is really irrelevent guys, haven't you heard the news.  Computing as we know it is going through a new revolution, it is now possible to record high quality to your Ipad and Iphone and even Android is starting to catch up.  What Sonar really needs to do is start thinking about an Ipad app or Android app.  Cubase has done it, this is the future.
 
We need to understand a couple of things, 1st our Iphone now and Ipad are about as powerful as laptops were about two or three years ago, why lug around a desktop (the way of the dodo anyone) or even a laptop these days. 2nd consumer electronics are of an excellent quality that gear snobs are just that eltist scum.  There are a number of fine audio interfaces that work with the ipad these days and this includes Apogee.
 
Whilst I  would still be reluctant to edit or mix on an ipad, the day is coming when I can see it will be possible.  What I really am looking forward to is when I can build an ipad instrument with a fully featured DAW, which can be used on stage and in the studio.  Were only a year or two away.  Watch this space.
 
Peace Ben

Sorry Guys, forum software says NO!

Ben : "We need to understand a couple of things, 1st our Iphone now and Ipad are about as powerful as laptops were about two or three years ago, why lug around a desktop (the way of the dodo anyone) or even a laptop these days"

Yeah, and iPads and phones have great sound too :-)

People have sacrificed everything for portability. The idea has become more important than the real thing.

Why have a great sound system when you can just imagine that you do ?

I guess I'm a dying breed since I like creature comforts. An ergonomic chair, a fullsize keyboard, a 30" screen, great speakers.
You won't see me pretending to create music sitting on a bus.

Benjamin, I'm sorry. I can't tell if you're kidding. 

I have 4 Terabytes of HD storage on my DAW, 8 GB of RAM. What about our huge sample libraries? I also record 48 tracks at once every week. I don't think an ipad will be a serious solution for me for a long time. 

Brad Russell


Benjamin, I'm sorry. I can't tell if you're kidding. 

I have 4 Terabytes of HD storage on my DAW, 8 GB of RAM. What about our huge sample libraries? I also record 48 tracks at once every week. I don't think an ipad will be a serious solution for me for a long time. 

 
I am being serious, I am a music tech specialist and I can see the writing on the wall.  I did say we were about a year or two away but lets say for agument sake your like me and many others here on the forum, that is we are hybrid musicians/digital musicians.  All we need is a couple of inputs and outputs.  So for most of us an Ipad will do the job. 
 
As for your argument, that is you record 48 tracks at once, it's not a viable option at the moment but on saying that I know of quite a few high end interfaces eg: RME that will now work with ipad, I believe it has to do with core audio.  So that takes care of the sound quality, next we have to look at SSD speeds, ram speeds and throughput of the apple connectors.  Now I am not sure of these facts but I believe a gig of ram should be enough to buffer 48 tracks of audio at 24bit 44.1Khz, the only problem seems to be storage and the throughput of the apple connector.
 
I believe that these problems will be solved in the near future, lets say apples next Ipad comes with a thunderbolt connector, this would allow you to hook multiple devices to the ipad, possibly in some sort of daisy chain format.  It would also allow you to connect a HD monitor to the ipad and external hard drives.  Couple this with a bluetooth keyboard and you have a very small touch screen laptop that could sit quite nicely in front of your large screen monitor and control things. 
 
Hold the presses I forgot about all the new and exciting interfaces that are availible now, there are fully functioning digital mixers from MAKIE and BEHRINGER which you slide your ipad into.  It wouldn't take much to build USB and HDMI connectors into the desk so you can record 48 tracks. 
 
Honestly this is the way of the future!!
 
Peace Ben

I don't think you need to double the staff to make Sonar work on a MAC. Softwares are written in certain languages, then they are compiled for whatever platform you want to - Windows, MAC, Linux. Of course it might need extra work and twaeks, but not to rewrite the whole program!