• SONAR
  • [Solved] Sonar x3c Crashing with x2a Projects and odd behavior (p.12)
2013/12/01 02:37:29
Sir Les
<iframe src="https://skydrive.live.com/embed?cid=D8165C5C2F47E451&resid=D8165C5C2F47E451%21112&authkey=AGm5sIkRI86kcJM" width="320" height="200" frameborder="0" scrolling="no"></iframe>" />
 
This is a picture of Sonar spiking in recording mode of 16 tracks of audio...as I do for session work here in my studio....I am not making this up...it is as I say....in all the win 7 installs that have run with my A&H desk.
 
https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=D8165C5C2F47E451&id=D8165C5C2F47E451%21112&v=3
 
as I do not know how to load a image on these forms forgive my ignorance...and possibly some one could guide me to that principled knowedge so I can show some, what I am going through here....it is very serious...although I try to make light of it...and I am in need of serious help...I am not a novice in terms of understanding my setup...I have been trouble shooting it for a year now with other software that did the same thing!...and I have found some solutions...which I am told by some should not be done....this is what happens when I follow their instructions......see the photo.
 
This cpu spiking is causing drop outs mostly, but can cause recorded noises on all tracks ...some I can edit out...if they are on a track where silence is or something that can be hidden...but it is not so easy when it is on a vocals or instruments wave forms...I can only reduce the peeks where it makes the audio desk peek into the red and above zero...which means noise!!!!!
 
So forgive me for being A little taken back...as all can see 12 threads are working to max 100%...and the spikes go into red zones in sonars cpu metering window.
 
I cannot find the app that shows the cpu cores or threads in monitoring in win 7.
I know there is one, but have no idea where it is located.....when I find that...I will post a picture link or better if someone helps me get these posted right...SO BOB can see all is set up right with my CPU and cores.
So I am not made out to be a liar...by words said here in this forum.
 
Thank you ALL for the help...but like I said I have no time to go in circles....this has to be solved....or I move to another system...and it will only start off the same...if this is not resolved....with A & L.
 and win 7...and you see why I tweak ///
 and what happens when I do not tweak....
and this is with engine 64bit off...as requested by ALexS
2013/12/01 02:41:43
Splat
And with plug and play enabled? (Or maybe with Win95).
2013/12/01 02:49:44
Sir Les
No alexS...the plug and play will only be turned on when and if no other solutions solve for this...As I know it will make the system unstable at this time of fresh install.(this is not the first go of this with me AlexS)...Let us take serious steps in this setup first...and if there is no solutions as is...I will try it...and then...when we get bsod behavior due to windows sharing the 16 irq physical rasters....we can then say win 7 is corrupted by X...and you learn something from me....if you have not already.
 
 
Thanks for the help...I hope I have proven myself a truth sayer here....Cause I believe in God and Jesus..and I want to be known as someone who tells the truth....nothing upsets me more than being called or implied I am...A LIAR.
Sir Les
2013/12/01 02:56:09
Splat
You're not a liar, misguided though... Totally misguided. Atheism is the way to go ;) Anyway really I am done now, I tried best of luck hope you get it resolved.
2013/12/01 03:05:44
Sir Les
oh I did not read? said Bob and YOU agreed, and put it under my nose?.......I did read the important parts right from the get go...and said I went into the power management and did all the tweaks, and the cpu thing is not there!...and I was in power management before BOB EVEN POSTED TO GO INTO IT...and I TWEAKED THE THINGS I HAD TO TO MAKE THE SYSTEM STAY ON!!!!!... he said  or you said,I did not check...?...I did check again, and once more for BOB....I am not following instructions? I am following instructions!!!!....that bare fruit, and some not as you can see because IU have not tweaked the system!....sonar engine is off...the problem persists to be....you said it solves some issues....I said it does nothing for me and my problem....and...there you have it.....if I turn on the plug and pray..in my bois, it will not stop things running in the background...You told me not to turn off system apps like security and other things like cau just to bnot use those letters in the right form...as you asked....I have complied.....see the spikes?....
 
that will continue with or without plug and pray on.
 
But when we come to no solutions with it off...I will indulge just for you....as I said I would comply.....I did not say when that would take place...for the plug and play if it is the last resort left.
2013/12/01 03:34:06
Sir Les
And who thinks they know it all?...me or you...who has the system in hand and is paying for the burnt out devices?..me or you?....I do not want bsods happening on my ssd drive...it cost bucks....or did when I bought it....and who is not listening to experience here me or you? when I say this has been done already in past with protools 9.3 and other Avid software techs telling me to do this or that, and go round and round causing all kinds of errors and reinstalls.......and we came to the conclusion To turn off Play and play...and that simmered it down to no bsods....experience AlexS...I have with this system is beyond your knowledge...You may be right in certain things AlexS in win 7 installation with common devices...and some troubleshooting techniques...But I have experience with the setup and installation of what works on this system with this desk, and onboard device driver issues....because I have talked to the technicians who built the desk...and the resolve was turn off the nic.....so I complied with that knowledge and made it known here.
turning it back on to post info, and such has caused issues...again to prove it is so..it was done to prove aswell.
Cause no one here believes me....and circles are made because I know everything...which is not true...I did not know about event viewer...although I have been told about it...the tweaks are what I was looking for....the event viewer is the means to find out what is needed to be tweaked.....well Black Viper resolved the need.
 
So that is a solution...you do not want me to perform....and so I do not at you command...to show you what happens when I do not do them in this setup state.
 
 
and you are not listening...You are not reading...you are not being compliant with me....and forcing me to show you...why.
2013/12/01 03:52:22
Sir Les
here read on
http://www.sevenforums.com/hardware-devices/211967-how-do-you-change-irq-sharing-conflicts.html
 
I can post more links about issues from Microsoft win 7 forums complaining about not being able to change irq setups to stop sharing from happening, if you wish in this thread also....But I think enough reading material is in the link I posted to make you think before telling me to turn off something that helps resolve that very issue, issues I have had in past, and will continue to have if I turn it back on.
 
Now look at my irq post....everything is ok....and that is the way it is because plug and play is off.
..and Iput the firewire card in a slot that is not shared, and the uad card removed...I was also turning off the onboard sound...but turned it back on to use midi soft synth with GM midi...in Sibelius 6.2
2013/12/01 04:02:39
Sir Les
And I have more stuff to install..Midi TX express, korg usb..and that will most likely will be it for devices....then it is test that....and see...if anything I will turn off onboard sound before turning off plug and play.
 
Do you hear me AlexS....So jab and duck...I have been reading up on win 7 problems with audio for a while to know some things work...when all else has failed.
2013/12/01 04:57:23
Sir Les
Now what has been noted so far....and the work we have accomplished is Great work...in brain storming together with freedom to try out solutions which were going no where, but I tried things told to me to do...that caused the reinstallation of win 7.
 
Bad installation of Sonar x3c = not as admin?...?...Check.
Plugins from third party SW Bitbridge and rewire 32 bit apps not installed right or corrupted noticed by Bob...check.
Windows being over burdened with errors and critical crashes, and some data dumps....check.
 
My solution with agreement of others...reinstall windows 7 and latest drivers, and leave the system as defaults STATED BY ALEXS for a while without tweaks to anything ......event viewer showed issues...check.....Did Power management tweaks...check.........Download of usb drivers from Asus for MB and installed...check....all MB drivers installed and win 7 did most of that and is clean install...error events showed up in event viewer...Microsoft was called for remote session appointment to see the errors.....A&H desk driver and firmware installed...check...issues occurred with down loads there after with nic and A & L desk running together...check...leaving the system as is as default has issue with nic card and A&L desk drivers proven with corrupted download and win IE11 being buggy...check..... sonar x3c installed correctly with nic off.....installed properly as admin according to Bob's instruction....check....sonar eye candy installed..check..download of addictive drummer failed due to leaving A&L desk on while nic is on caused more events to show up in viewer...check.
Posted other events due to remote viewer turning back on or resetting power management, causing sleep mode to occur while letting the system run over night...check.
engine 2 installed, ilok and codemeter....check
Running tests= run of sonar x3c recording.. with out noticing the change in power management...caused another sleep mode event which caused more error events to occur in viewer...check....all info posted that was current and as they happened...check.
 
See how far we have come?....and then a second Microsoft remote viewer...tweaked auto updates.
 
event errors do not mean something is completely out of whack...and it can be fixed if one knows win 7....I do not have those skills fully under my belt...no one can use a universal mode of conduct for all systems...as each system is different...only through experience can this be known....
 
I told you the nic card and A&L do not work together...and internet is not something I use this system for....
leaving things defaulted has only caused the truth to be known by all, with more errors to be posted...I already knew this could happen...But You do not listen to me...not because I know everything or I do not do as I am told.....because you do not want to except the knowledge without finding it out for yourselves.
 
That is why you go and serve me links....? and say I do not read em?...when I do...
 
 
Now I can be frank, I can be nice, and I can get mad...when I know what I am doing with Bios settings with plug and play...as I said this caused win 7 to follow Bios irq mapping and slot setup..
 
Has nothing to do with cpu spikes....if all irqs are ok, and not shared adversely in win 7 then there is no issue.
and I posted them up...all ok...and no conflicts either...so that is ok.
 
if you want to see that page...let me know.
 
and we hopefully apologize for the pissing....eh?
 
Sorry for being frank..And if I have to ruffle feathers I'm sorry...but my opinion means something..My ideas mean something, and my ethics are not without reason.....Thank Hector..we are all human here....I hope.. you know the would be King of Troy...if only!
 
2013/12/01 08:19:21
robert_e_bone
It may be listed in one of the posts of this long thread, but if you don't mind, please list the exact version of Windows 7 you have installed.
 

 
In the above, which was taken from the link I had posted earlier, this is what shows up for me on machines with Windows 7 Professional or Windows 7 Ultimate, except since I am not using a laptop I don't see the Battery option.  The red box does not properly encapsulate all the settings under Processor Power Management, but in the image you can see the Minimum Processor State and Maximum Processor State.  I have literally set the Minimum Processor State to 100% on over 50 computers I have built in the last couple of years that are running either Windows 7 Professional or more often Windows 7 Ultimate.
 
Perhaps that option does not appear for some versions of Windows - I do not have any machines running any of the other versions of Windows 7 to be able to check that.  My earlier thought when you indicated that "it wasn't there" or whatever the exact phrase was, was read by me to mean you hadn't seen it in the article from the link, rather than not seeing it in the power management options.  
 
Meaning from typed words is sometimes misconstrued, and I try to be careful to avoid that - but don't always avoid it.  That was why I had posted the text from the article, with that part in bold.  I also had provided the further explanation because that setting most definitely does apply to desktops, and I have personally made that setting adjustment many many times.
 
I do truly wish you the best at getting things sorted out.  It got frustrating at your end, and at mine, during the lengthy dialog of this thread.
 
My suggestion at changing the thread title was due to the crashes being system-specific problems not caused by Sonar, and to a degree I believe much of the odd behavior noted is also part of those system issues.
 
The truth of the situation is that most everybody else does NOT have the issues you had/have, and nearly everyone follows a much more conventional process of installation.
Your system is different, with some unique challenges not faced by others, but those challenges are not Sonar's fault, hence my suggestion at title change for the thread.
 
CPU spiking is a small tiny piece of all of what had been determined thus far.
 
Many times, device drivers and/or background services can cause latency spikes, which produce pops/crackles/dropouts.
 
There are a couple of freeware programs that can assist with determining whether or not your system can adequately handle the demands of streaming audio applications, such as Sonar.
 
1.  DPC Latency Checker - this can be downloaded from:
 
http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml
 
Please note that if you ever move to Windows 8, that at the current time (to the best of my knowledge), due to kernel differences in Windows 8, that it does not accurately report latency times.  That problem does NOT occur on Windows 7, and it works fine there.  After downloading and running this program (which you can do from another web-connected computer and put on a flash drive or CD to port it to your non-web computer), anyways you would run this program with Sonar NOT running, and let it run for a few minutes.  It gives a running reporting on detected latency, and will evaluate your system for being able to handle running programs like Sonar.
 
2.  Latency Mon - this is the second monitoring program, also freeware, and can be downloaded from:
 
http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon
 
Again, you would download and run this, per its instructions, without Sonar running, and it identifies potential latency problems.
 
The above are quite valuable, and thankfully free, and should assist in figuring out latency issues that lead to pops/crackles/dropouts.
 
Bob Bone
 
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