• SONAR
  • [Solved] Sonar x3c Crashing with x2a Projects and odd behavior (p.17)
2014/01/10 15:11:11
Splat
Interesting he states...
"It looks like Sonar X1/X2 cannot work on a machine with hyper threading enabled on either Focusrite or UAD Apollo interfaces."

Well I'm running X3D on an ASIO and I/O buffer of 128 on a focusrite box rock solid and stable.

As far as his UAD system is concerned (where the processing power is actually being diverted away from the CPU) performance issues are a thing of the past as it's now doesn't work at all down to a coding defect with UAD. Ok I joke I don't know about UAD Apollo interfaces.
2014/01/10 18:51:22
Sir Les
It is interesting that Plug ins of old, and some new do not seem to work right with Sonar as well.
 
Perhaps something is not working on the hardware side of things...like sata controller, or something else where the cpu reports to the os...causing a spike to occur?...any way just saying there are others who have cpu spiking, and it is not unknown to CW, as this has been reported ....and I also have reported it...along with all the other stuff...might have made a muddle, but it was reported...So ...no matter what you have Alex working nice and dandy...other people are having issues...not saying it is Sonar's fault , not saying it is pilot error...could be MS...or hardware, or the ASIO using certain other devices and certain other hardware...finding the comb and routing out the problem may be a bit of a long haul...and to stay focused and attentive to the issues being found...may uncover and solve for in time.
 
I had a UAD solo..perhaps it did some damage to something else, like the cpu when trying it in sonar?
2014/01/10 19:00:13
Splat
It is interesting that Plug ins of old, and some new do not seem to work right with Sonar as well.
 
Exactly the same could said with Cubase, Reason, Pro Tools, any DAW or any software being compatible with any software to be honest since the beginning of time, and that could be down to any reason whatsoever (no not "Reason"), even radiation from the sun, even that could cause spiking I suspect. I believe anything now that I've learnt that dogs defecate in line with the earths magnetic field (http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/jan/08/dogs-defecate-earths-magnetic-field-research-finds)
 
Unless you nail down to root cause of the problem (which will probably end up being quite simple, it generally always is, and you end up kicking yourself for it), sadly all you have is just speculation and thoughts, but it's totally impossible to generalise. I just wish you could find the cause of your issue :(
As you've built your machine I know it is possible to have hardware compatibilities that's why I lay off building my machines nowadays.
 
I hope the Mac Pro 8 core works out better for you, please don't tweak it too much! :)
 
Cheers..
2014/01/11 10:10:31
Sir Les
Well Building My monster PC machines, with supposedly Quality Parts...doesn't seem to address the Plug in problems in any way (Bad code is bad code)...if plug ins use a standard (linking system = X) and if the code uses the hardware correctly (mandates these confines be used =driver or machine codes, with code to call on or do Z function of) Then all of the software DAWs if as you say do not function correctly with other code made to work with...means Code is buggy...if all things are working on the hardware side of things as they should be.
 
Yes hunting down the root or cause for, when all seems right, or was before installing X software...seems kind of pointed towards Bad Code.
 
But that could be the final outcome....UAD made bad code, which damaged something else, even though the UAD is removed and the driver is uninstalled, and all plugins...it or the software trying to use it in the wrong way caused some of the hardware to be damaged.
 
Not sayin it is this or that yet...but look at all the complaints for UAD...that may be my next forum search  for more similar cpu spiking problems...If they are responsible enough to admit a issue like this... if enough people complain...what compensation would there be for those who now have defective CPUs?
 
Alex no matter how much your machine runs 8 tracks of inputs and outputs...You have to tweak some settings in windows...to do DAW work...I do not care what you say about that.
And when problems arise like I have had over the years...one has to tweak more, to route out what is causing it...so turning off redundant background apps and services can be ruled out as the cause...which leads more to hardware or software being used, being the culprit.
 
As this was a bug hunt...those methods used...helped reduce, but not solve for....and if reducing the problem...it could well be that background something is interfering with Sonars performance when IDLE with no tracks or play or record engaged or IN USE...As I have noted.
 
It also seems to show that only Sonars CPU meters in my case, was jumping, Microsoft's CPU meter did not spike at all...when running side by side...SO what Sonar is reporting seems in error, or Microsoft's Cpu metering is in error...of reporting true ..In my case.
 
Which one is right or wrong, and what is being monitored in sonar that would cause it to see this activity and display it, when the other cpu meter does not?
 
Now we are getting into the meat and potatoes of code ....and I do not want to become a coder or bug hunter of code for or solve for...that is what CW bakers should look into, if it is found to be a issue with more than ONE or TWO PEOPLE.
 
And that is why I am tying these links into the pot luck...cause something is common with us all who have the issues with cpu spiking using sonar, and other DAws using perhaps Libraries of C+++-)()(:...perhaps that is key to finding the route cause?
 
It is better than just throughing my hands up in the air and saying...well Alex's PC works, so the world has no Problems with em...It Just ain't my go to solution.
 
All PCs have to be tweaked ALEX...if You buy the stuff being exclusively made by PC builders, they all say they optimize the OS...that means they tweak it....turning off stuff, and making some things that windows defaults to on the initial install, like sleep mode and monitor sleep , and usb auto turn off, and harddrive power settings, caching and buffers, and such needs to be addressed...that is tweaking..turning off speed step, and other Bios features...that is tweaking the sytem....and no one can not do that when running a DAW for Recording...who wants sleep mode to turn on while working on a project that was left for 5 min, while going to the potty?...or making a coffee?...not me...cause getting out of sleep mode, in some causes may cause the project to fail...and we all know that happens ...and you say save save save..and backup?...But if the system is working properly, ...that could be reduced to save the project when finished working...or after each edit..not every second...because the software may freeze up at any time...lets try to stop the freeze up or crash before hand...would be better served by tweaking something to help reduce it or solve for it.
 
So to reduce reason for freezes , snap crakle and pops..cpu spikes, or overloads, corrupted files, and such...one can do tweakes to help that be reduced.....to nil....and no matter how much you may have a stable system with your hardware...even if I bought what You have..there is no promise I will have the exact same performance....As the electronic parts have variables build in of Plus or minus %..not all are exactly the same even though they have the same specification, there is wiggle room of a set amount...and they can perform slightly differently under same conditions..
 
It is like Guitars, no two play exactly the same, even if they are made by X, and of the same kind of wood and build.
 
So ..You saying my system works great...means moot to me...and I know you tweaked something on it Alex...cause You have to.
 
And that is PC land...Mac Land I have no IDEA what to expect....But I will be reading AVIDs how to install PT 11.2.1.6.9.0. on mac soon enough, and I am sure, I will have to tweak it...Just saying...and the learning curve will be interesting ...for the last part of my life trying to get this working in Blissful meaded directions....cheers!..But that will not stop me from continued seeking of the cause of this system failure and culprit ...Cause I like resolve in my mind to be made meaded.
2014/01/11 10:55:45
Sir Les
In another post of mine asking about Firewire vs Usb...and possible sabotage of firewire By MS...so the usb sales increase for USB devices, could be a ploy by MS...??
 
Now thunderbolt 2 is being brought in on both sides of the computing fence..Perhaps this firewire is part and parcel the root cause of many a issue with those trying to stabilize their DAW systems for blissful recordings and playback, but never really working right out of the box, and tweaking and buffer changes to higher levels , or cutting back the bit rate to 44.1 are the only solutions for some workaround not specified on the box.., that also have USB 2/ 3 on their systems...perhaps something in that regard may be in play...?...The things that are going on between camps..Apple Mac, and PC MS....Who suffers them issues, is all a game of COW feeding, to get the top dollar, and standards employed in favour of...PROFIT GAINS>Now this kind of tactic could also be a route to point at as a possible variable....Not saying it is, not saying it isn't...but I will not rule it out of mind...until I find reason to.
2014/01/11 11:06:44
Splat
I don't see any conspiracy here, I run a saffire pro 40 on FireWire. I/O buffers and ASIO set to 128. All software up to date. Works fine. Other people running USB fine. Sure people have problems but the last thing a software house wants to look is incompetent with stability.
2014/01/11 11:22:53
Sir Les
Also there are many Firewire 400/800 card solutions, using different chips...some work ok, some are dependant on what you are using it for...some are express, some bridged...the bridged cards, do not function as well as express chips...and TI has had more success with the majority, but have also reported issues with some of their chips with certain hardware...Where is the standard?...there is no one go to that will work with all....And that is a guessing game...also you have to say well I want this product to work, so the device calls for recommendations to use X brand, as being R&D and claimed to work with,...but if you plug in something else on it to use, it causes problems, same for USB?...if using Firewire?....perhaps? perhaps not?...But it is interesting to note that even this firewire conceptual standard has too many unstandard methods....and finding the one that works even if you follow recommendation ...may then fall into driver conflicts with other devices, or hardware.....and the circle goes on unaddressed..or you pull the card and try something else...feeding the cow more!
2014/01/11 12:01:26
Sir Les
I have a sapphire Pro 40 , And it worked great in XP with a lot of my software...It is when I moved to win 7 and PT 9, and this system, and then all hell broke loose with it, and my devices and software, not working right..Admin or not....and here I am...why?...well that is technology and the cow's nature I guess...Competent enough to know something is slightly out of phase with MS and Music Production solutions not being made standard I suppose for some...ASIO 2 is one of the things that seems to work...although limiting the amount of devices that can be run at once...it is pretty good over the WMD MS solution...But I am sure ASIO 3 might be something coming soon that will let one connect many Audio devices at once and use, for more inputs and such...But that is down the road..or not coming at all, as developers are making devices with more ins and outs these days...With that in mind, and the need to be able to have 8-24 or 32 tracks being recorded at once...the system has to be able to do it...with out interruptions.....That is where I seem to be hitting a speed bump, bottle neck , or bad code, or app or service causing...or device is damaged...See...experience with the system, says it was working with XP, But when I moved to win 7 all things changed...and so more money went to solve for, buying things that should work...but do not.
 
Now when one has the system working to blissful standards of....One should turn off automatic updates...cause one thing overwritten can cause Problems to arise...Right?...and that is a tweak of the OS...and that is my point being made ...sometimes updates cause problems....not saying it does for all, or at all...but sometimes it does..in my case, another variable to ponder more.
 
 
 
 
2014/01/11 12:49:20
Sir Les
And So Alex , thanks for your perspective, but the shaded glasses have come off here...
 
You saying some do have issues...although we all know you do not...when you do encounter them...should I chime in and say < I Have no issues on my system, and Your claims are unfounded and not mentioned by others here?>,,,,
"surely I proved that some are having the same issues with links and such to other forums..and some of those posters must have posted here at one time?"...and overlooked by many perhaps, or gone unsolved for....making them go elsewhere for solutions...it seems....At least You acknowledge my posts, and I will not let it settle to oblivion of the last pages of this forum....until I gain the solution.
 
 
  others may benefit from....THE EXPERIENCE.
 
Now I dislike WIN 7...only because it removed the possibility to control IRQ mapping manually....another possible issue unaddressed By MS...but found to be causing shared devices...with no control, and seemingly randomly on boot up.
And win 8 and 8.1 bringing in the new cow with similar tactics?....Some have issues, some don't...more Money!...Some are turning back....interesting how that is a feature now instilled in the new? or is it the same old same old with a new number attached and eye candy to trick with a few new features ontop or infront to blind or shade more money out of the pocket?...and what does it say about the new by the makers of it?...it is not perfect, and it is ongoing towards some kind of perfecting, and if you have issues, and you know you might, if track record is used as a stat...you can revert back to 7...So half backed OSes being released too early and software claiming to support...and then forced to update and cross the fingers, or revert backwards to something that works kind of better.......but is not perfect either....has one or many thinking...why bother?
 
And it continues on...because no one is speaking up....cause that is the way it is?..or is that the way we let it be?...and so it is, because no one stands up...to make change to standards round the table to comply with...no standards means chaos will arise!
2014/01/11 13:35:46
Sir Les
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