timidi


What I'm reaching for is why manufacturers don't make more computer integrated mixer/controllers at a decent price point?

I mean, the audio world we live in is on a computer. As Beagle states, USB2.0 can move 226 channels. So, why is there not a mixer that will handle that? And, when I say mixer, I guess I'm really saying controller. So that, the mixer/controller is just an extension of the DAW.

Seems like most options available are either a "mixer" or a "controller".
I'm wondering if the motorized faders would be the most expensive part for the manufacturers.

Hi Goddard. you said:
"So some other kind of interfacing (FW/USB/PCI/PCIe/Ethernet) is used in order to interconnect an ADAT-equipped unit (audio interface, AD/DA, mixer) with a PC/Mac."

I use an old Panasonic DA7 digital mixer. Adat in/out of mixer to an RME AIO card. Are you telling me that I didn't need the RME card? I could of just got a TX inst firewire card to interface with my mixer.? Ouch...

I'm still confused about everything.....

tmidi, your DA7 (very nice mixers in their day btw) never had any FW  option available for interfacing with external gear, so you have to use ADAT (or TDIF or AES/EBU) i/o cards installed in your DA7 for external digital i/o connections.


So, using an ADAT card in your DA7, then in order to interface your DA7 with a PC you can use a PC card having an ADAT port (best) like your RME AIO, or you can use an  ADAT<>FW interface (2nd  best) like the Profire Lightbridge connected to a FW port in your PC, or use an ADAT<>USB interface (3rd best) connected to a USB port in your PC .

So yes, you do in fact need that RME card for its ADAT i/o ports, because there is no place to plug a FW cable into your DA7. I hope that's clearer to you now.

Now, time for a history lesson.

In the distant past, many manufacturers did offer small computer-integratable mixer/controllers (small digital mixers which could be interfaced with a computer and used as control surfaces for DAW software running on the computer), including Soundcraft, Yamaha, Mackie, Tascam to name just a few. But they were very expensive and few "prosumers" could afford them.

Today, most pro/prosumer audio interfaces include at least some basic onboard digital mixing functionality for routing i/o and monitoring (like RME's TotalMix mixer in your AIO card), as do DAW software programs, and there are a wide variety of control surface options available (some folks use old digital mixers as DAW control surfaces). 

As DAWs became more popular, a few manufacturers (including Cakewalk with Peavey) offered combo audio interface-DAW controller units, but these were fairly basic and did not offer the same functionality as a full-blown digital mixer like your DA7. Other offerings were closer, such as Tascam's FW-18xx.

Then, as computers became more powerful, many of the tasks like compression and EQ and reverb effects for which people had used digital mixers or other outboard processing gear became more feasible "ITB", and as multi-channel preamps, audio interfaces and outboard AD/DA converters became more widely available, the market for smaller digital mixers declined and fewer models were offered. Still used in a lot of places though.

Nowadays, there are a number of analog and analog/digital mixers offered with USB or FW connectivity for computers, like FBB's ZED. And Presonus have intro'd new Studiolive live/recording digi mixers which combine a FW audio interface and 2-way control functionality along with DAW software and i-device remote control.

As well, audio interface manufacturers are starting to offer more capable DSP mixers and fx in outboard audio interfaces, controlled by software running on a connected DAW. 

So perhaps the current trends are moving in different directions.

There are inexpensive multi moving fader DAW/MIDI controllers available from Behringer, and smaller single fader controllers from Presonus and Frontier Designs (wireless). Plus, older moving-fader controllers can be found secondhand (many used MIDI and/or the ubiquitous Mackie protocols, so still-usable). Wireless touch controller apps for DAWs are also becoming popular for iPad.

Ok, end of lesson. Hope you were paying attention.

I'll leave it to FBB to answer your other query about the ZED R16. 
[Edit: Oh, I see FBB has already responded]

Hey FBB, ever run across one of these (from the "AHB" days)?


http://www.allen-heath.co...ctId=CMC&SubCatId=


(click the image to enlarge)


First mixer to employ an onboard microprocessor for automation. And it was controllable and sync-able via a Commodore C=64!

Cost the do$h back then too... back when "Fire Wire" was just something one shouted when the dodgy power supply wiring was on fire!
 

Can't say I have but how times have changed.

I have had a couple of smaller A & H mixers in my live rigs over the years but the R16 is my first interface from them.

Thanks guys

Yes Goddard, the DA7 works out pretty nice. I like it. Actually, It's pretty much just as viable now as it was when it came out in my mind.
I've had it for like 10 years or so.
And, just recently got it to control faders in Sonar. 16 at a time with the generic controller patch in Sonar. DOH.....

Thanks for the history lesson:) 

With Win8 on the horizon, I get the feeling that most automation is going to be occuring via touch screen. Should be interesting.

FastBikerBoy


Can't say I have but how times have changed.

I have had a couple of smaller A & H mixers in my live rigs over the years but the R16 is my first interface from them.

A&H have definitely made some versatile mixers, with nice EQ. There are times I kick myself for ever trading in my Mixwizzer 20:8:2 and then go off hunting for another. No scene automation but could do back flips at the push of a few buttons. The new version is supposed to sound nicer, but they changed the functionality and dropped the 8-bus for some reason.