swamp..it will be interesting to see what you come up with.  I tried to get into the opcode stuff but it just seemed like more work than it was worth.

smallstonefan
Danny - thanks for taking the time to post such detail. I for one enjoyed and appreciated it! :)

If I was still editing Electronic Musician, I'd be probably be PMing him about doing reviews...

Im thinking of focusing just on plogue. Their sfzorando engine is open and flexible and allows for designers to create custom controls that map to sfz opcodes. It's a real winner.

I installed plogue and  I do appreciate  how it just works..  Hit and miss wit ha lot of other soundfont players

Danny Danzi

KeniWhat makes AD "sound better"? Is it the drum kits included? I don't believe any one software sounds better than another simply playing back audio clips these days... I've been using a hybrid Slate drum kit in SD3 for quite a while and while I think it sounds great, there are a few features that might make the kits feel more natural such as bleed.... One drum creating a tiny bit of sound when a connected or nearby drum is struck... I'm curious to hear that implemented... But what else is there to make AD special? I believe I can get most of the high end drum kits in SD3 format if I so chose... Please clue me in... Keni 

I'm a drum whore Kenni, so I'll give you my take. LOL! To me, the difference is in how the programs handle the samples. For example, if I route into SD3 with my V-Drums, it sounds like I'm playing through a drum machine. It has limited options for pad control. I use two spots on my hi-hats. The edge and the middle. The two sounds don't appear using SD3. Also, the hats are either all the way open or all the way closed. On other drum modules, I get 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and full. This is huge for me. Roboticism: This is my main complaint with SD3. It's a great starter module, but program a fast tom fill in and it resamples. The sounds are not very pro sounding either no matter what package you buy. It's just a module that is too limited to keep up with programs like BFD 3, Superior and *some* elements of AD. AD to me is the next step up from SD3. It has some really nice sounds but even there, there seems to be a retriggering situation that makes the toms seem synthetic to me. Try doing the same thing with BFD 3 some of the NI kits or Superior 2....night and day difference to where you cannot tell you are using a drum module. But I like AD because the sounds are really good. They just aren't so great when you play super fast. But for 90% of the stuff I throw at them, they respond rather well just by using the stock TD-10 or TD-20 mapping right out of the box. So in all actuality, it depends what type of drum style you play. You can make basic beats and simple fills sound good on SD3...but to me it's STILL not a pro sounding drum module. A great starter piece into the world of drum programs, but definitely (sorry Cakewalk) at the bottom of the list for me when you compare the drum kits I use here. For the record....here's my list in order from worst to best and why. SD3: Again, great starter module...some decent sounds, some good upgrade sounds but it just lacks realism, amount of samples per velocity per drum and multi-sample blend abilities. Steven Slate Drums 4: Too much hype and price for too little realism. Kicks and snares are cool.....roboticising is not as bad as SD3, yet is VERY blatant. Toms are some of the worst sounding toms of all time hands down. Cymbals are mediocre at best and have their moments. Addictive Drums: Yeah, would you believe I like them better than Slate? Realism is there, roboticism happens a bit less than Slate and the drums sound pretty darned good. Take the effects off of Slate drums and listen...then do the same with these. Which sounds more like a real drum sitting on your lap? At times...neither. LOL! But I prefer the sound and realism of AD. If only it had more sounds and abilities like Slate's does. But for sound and realism only, this wins. EzDrummer: What can be said about this little gem? It's probably been used on more recordings than any drum program in existence. Why? It works and it's pretty impressive considering the price. It's real, it doesn't roboticise and what you see is what you get. Still a bit fake sounding when you take all the roomy stuff off....but this kit just sounds incredible whether you program it or play it in real time. Velocities on this work wonders. Superior Drummer 2: Sickness! EzDrummer on roids! More combinations and realism than you can shake a stick at. Loads of uses, incredible drum packs, super simple midi learning and set-up, by far one of the best drum modules ever made. Never robotic. NI Drums: Some of their drums are horrendous, but when you find a few kits that really work well, they are so realistic you'll think you mic'd up a real kit. NEVER robotic when you have the right kit. Some of the Abbey stuff is cool....some is lame to me. You'll know when you have the right kit....it will sound better than a real kit. LOL! Midi learn is incredible, realism is great. The only drawback, I absolutely hate Kontakt with every ounce of my being and pray each night that something else takes its place that is easier to use and is also more intuitive. BFD 2/BFD 3: This is the bomb of drum kits, hands down. However, you may not think that when you first fire it up. Why? It's too real. Yes, too real. It sounds like you mic'd a drum set in your room. You'll need to compress it, process it, eq it, effect it and treat is EXACTLY the way you would treat a real drum set in all ways. When you get it where you want it, nothing tops it. It's never robotic...the sounds are incredible...and when you kill all the room stuff, it sounds like a drum on your lap. The cymbals are the best around...the abilities of rim shots and other goodies are just so real, it's scary. The down side is the work it takes to make this monster sound like a processed kit in 2013. It is not Superior or one of those drum programs that will sound like a million bucks right out of the box all processed and compressed. This is the kit that teaches you how to deal with post production drums in a studio environment. The one that YOU make sound like a processed kit. The interface in BFD 2 is a bear, but this is where BFD 3 comes in. It's been streamlined and was built more intuitive. The new stock sound library is REALLY strong. Though to me a lot of these drums sound more like classic rock drums (the way they were mic'd and weren't dampened and mic placed the way I would have done them) you can make them more modern with a little elbow grease and of course the Deluxe pack can help a bit. But these are so real, they make the hair on your arms stand. You just have to work them hard and most people do not have the time for this. Anyway...that's my take as I have lived it. :) Hope some people get a little something out of it. -Danny

Thank you for a great mini review

the thing is all of these things ARE possible in sd3. the open source drum kit project comes to mind.  there were overhead and mic position fades that you could control via midi ccs.  the problem is that most of these options were hidden unless you opened the sfz files.  unfortunately most drum library developers are either creating for a specific ui or don't want to type a lot of sfz code, so most sd3 libraries wind up flat and not fully exploiting the sfz format potential. pretty much the most you get nowadays are different round robin layers at different velocity levels.  you can totally have recorded overheads and room ambience in a sd3 kit and the ability to automate anything that goes with them, but the development is taxing.  i think if there had ever been a visual sfz editor put on the market (there are free ones, but frankly they suck in a big way) available from rene or cake the format could have taken off.

Given the choice of moving a knob or slider and hearing the change in overhead, room, and ambient mics, being able to change the positions (not just the amount) of those mics plus so many more parameters in REAL TIME compared to having to open up an sfz file, edit the parameters to something you think (hope) will sound ok and then hear it, which do you find the most appealing ?
I never edited sfz files, I read about the process and decided there were far better options such as BFD2.
 
I hardly needed to read Danny's post as I am very familiar and in complete agreement with his choices but I did and it was, as always much appreciated. I've spent the last year beta testing BFD3 and although there are some things about the UI that I miss in BFD2 it really is the number 1 choice for me and no one is going to change my mind.
I have EZdrummer and Addictive Drums and AD is much better IMHO but frankly very over priced compared to BFD2.
 
Steve

Thumbs up for Danny's post!  Very informative :-)

Thanks Danny!  I already have Superior Drummer and did not know much about AD.

xray2
I haven't tried it yet, but I read somewhere that Addictive does cymbal chokes.  That's a big +1 to me.

You can do cymbal chokes in SD3 too... But you need to program them into kit... I don't remember the exact routine, but you can assign a key to choke a specified sample's playback... It is programmed into mist open high hats by default...

Keni

Danny Danzi

KeniWhat makes AD "sound better"? Is it the drum kits included? I don't believe any one software sounds better than another simply playing back audio clips these days... I've been using a hybrid Slate drum kit in SD3 for quite a while and while I think it sounds great, there are a few features that might make the kits feel more natural such as bleed.... One drum creating a tiny bit of sound when a connected or nearby drum is struck... I'm curious to hear that implemented... But what else is there to make AD special? I believe I can get most of the high end drum kits in SD3 format if I so chose... Please clue me in... Keni 

I'm a drum whore Kenni, so I'll give you my take. LOL! To me, the difference is in how the programs handle the samples. For example, if I route into SD3 with my V-Drums, it sounds like I'm playing through a drum machine. It has limited options for pad control. I use two spots on my hi-hats. The edge and the middle. The two sounds don't appear using SD3. Also, the hats are either all the way open or all the way closed. On other drum modules, I get 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and full. This is huge for me. Roboticism: This is my main complaint with SD3. It's a great starter module, but program a fast tom fill in and it resamples. The sounds are not very pro sounding either no matter what package you buy. It's just a module that is too limited to keep up with programs like BFD 3, Superior and *some* elements of AD. AD to me is the next step up from SD3. It has some really nice sounds but even there, there seems to be a retriggering situation that makes the toms seem synthetic to me. Try doing the same thing with BFD 3 some of the NI kits or Superior 2....night and day difference to where you cannot tell you are using a drum module. But I like AD because the sounds are really good. They just aren't so great when you play super fast. But for 90% of the stuff I throw at them, they respond rather well just by using the stock TD-10 or TD-20 mapping right out of the box. So in all actuality, it depends what type of drum style you play. You can make basic beats and simple fills sound good on SD3...but to me it's STILL not a pro sounding drum module. A great starter piece into the world of drum programs, but definitely (sorry Cakewalk) at the bottom of the list for me when you compare the drum kits I use here. For the record....here's my list in order from worst to best and why. SD3: Again, great starter module...some decent sounds, some good upgrade sounds but it just lacks realism, amount of samples per velocity per drum and multi-sample blend abilities. Steven Slate Drums 4: Too much hype and price for too little realism. Kicks and snares are cool.....roboticising is not as bad as SD3, yet is VERY blatant. Toms are some of the worst sounding toms of all time hands down. Cymbals are mediocre at best and have their moments. Addictive Drums: Yeah, would you believe I like them better than Slate? Realism is there, roboticism happens a bit less than Slate and the drums sound pretty darned good. Take the effects off of Slate drums and listen...then do the same with these. Which sounds more like a real drum sitting on your lap? At times...neither. LOL! But I prefer the sound and realism of AD. If only it had more sounds and abilities like Slate's does. But for sound and realism only, this wins. EzDrummer: What can be said about this little gem? It's probably been used on more recordings than any drum program in existence. Why? It works and it's pretty impressive considering the price. It's real, it doesn't roboticise and what you see is what you get. Still a bit fake sounding when you take all the roomy stuff off....but this kit just sounds incredible whether you program it or play it in real time. Velocities on this work wonders. Superior Drummer 2: Sickness! EzDrummer on roids! More combinations and realism than you can shake a stick at. Loads of uses, incredible drum packs, super simple midi learning and set-up, by far one of the best drum modules ever made. Never robotic. NI Drums: Some of their drums are horrendous, but when you find a few kits that really work well, they are so realistic you'll think you mic'd up a real kit. NEVER robotic when you have the right kit. Some of the Abbey stuff is cool....some is lame to me. You'll know when you have the right kit....it will sound better than a real kit. LOL! Midi learn is incredible, realism is great. The only drawback, I absolutely hate Kontakt with every ounce of my being and pray each night that something else takes its place that is easier to use and is also more intuitive. BFD 2/BFD 3: This is the bomb of drum kits, hands down. However, you may not think that when you first fire it up. Why? It's too real. Yes, too real. It sounds like you mic'd a drum set in your room. You'll need to compress it, process it, eq it, effect it and treat is EXACTLY the way you would treat a real drum set in all ways. When you get it where you want it, nothing tops it. It's never robotic...the sounds are incredible...and when you kill all the room stuff, it sounds like a drum on your lap. The cymbals are the best around...the abilities of rim shots and other goodies are just so real, it's scary. The down side is the work it takes to make this monster sound like a processed kit in 2013. It is not Superior or one of those drum programs that will sound like a million bucks right out of the box all processed and compressed. This is the kit that teaches you how to deal with post production drums in a studio environment. The one that YOU make sound like a processed kit. The interface in BFD 2 is a bear, but this is where BFD 3 comes in. It's been streamlined and was built more intuitive. The new stock sound library is REALLY strong. Though to me a lot of these drums sound more like classic rock drums (the way they were mic'd and weren't dampened and mic placed the way I would have done them) you can make them more modern with a little elbow grease and of course the Deluxe pack can help a bit. But these are so real, they make the hair on your arms stand. You just have to work them hard and most people do not have the time for this. Anyway...that's my take as I have lived it. :) Hope some people get a little something out of it. -Danny

Wow!

Thanks Danny...

That was exactly what I needed...

I have the same complaints as you about drum modules. I have a TD20 kit and SD3 can't read the hat or toms well enough for many types of playing... I'd resigned myself to limit my writing where necessary... Using less toms and often none at all... Keeping them sparse as well.... More Zen phrasing... ;-). High hats? A little better but lots of challenges... Dealing with hat on/off is so much more limiting than most people realize! I've managed (at times) to wax over some issues with creative use of velocity, but it foe ends my ear when these or triggering issues make the drums sound less than lifelike...

I've been dreaming of BFD since fxPansion moved from DR008 ...

You answered many of my questions in this post... I look forward to checking out AD when I get X3 but I'm sure I will still dream of BFD3!

;-)

I'm too broke to get X3 yet and will b a long time, but I hope to get BFD at some point too... I'm not financially well these days...

I'm surprised that Slate didn't do a better job with their instrument. I like their samples!

Thanks Again!

Keni