• SONAR
  • X3 Users: Session Drummer 3 vs. the Addictive Drums - your verdict? (p.5)
2013/10/04 13:25:48
Danny Danzi
No problem guys....glad that helped you. Honestly, I really do put these drum modules through their paces which have formed my opinions. However, a lot of the good and the bad with drum modules depends on how you use them as well as the style you play. The crazier (think prog metal drums or intricate jazz) drumming will need a drum module that is just as intense. For lighter stuff or simple beats to keep time where you're not really focusing much in dynamics or cool drum fills, the drum programs earlier in my list are really good.
 
I honestly didn't mean to sound negative about any of them because they all really are awesome tools no matter how we slice it. Once you find what works for you and use a few of these things, you'll see what I was talking about. Or...depending on your individual use, maybe you won't. You know how it goes...what works for one may not work for another...or we'll get some guy to come on here that pops out of nowhere saying "well, if you do this that this and this using SD3, it allows you to do this that this and this" and the next thing you know, we learn something from someone. :)
 
Steve (twaddle) you test for fxpansion too?! I don't think we ran into each other over there, did we? Or maybe my memory is failing me? It's so funny what you said about the UI. I was so against the looks of BFD 3 as well as some of the UI stuff that I thought for sure they would boot me off the team. LOL! I know it does a lot more than BFD 2 and is way more intuitive in ways....but man, I don't get the direction they went in for everything else...especially the eye-candy department and where the options are scattered about.
 
Kinda like the new Lincoln...they went from looking majestic and intimidating to small, compact and pretty much like everything else in life...scaled down and lifeless. Heck I posted on the beta forum over at fxpansion "that's why I liked the 80's....it may have looked rediculous to some people, but we really did take pride in our appearance." or something along those lines. LOL! All that aside, it is an incredible drum program. 
 
Kenni: Glad it was helpful. Sorry to hear about the financial situation....it's not easy for most people these days, that's for sure. Studio's are really taking a hit due to people being able to get decent results on their own. They can either buy software at a decent price at Wal-Mart or Staples or heck....steal it right off the net. :( The problem there is they will take a loooong time to get what we are capable of getting for them....but people learn so fast and have so many cool tools to assist them, you're only goal has to be "ok, I need to be able to give people something they can't get anywhere else." Once you find that niche, you push that as hard as you can. I have quite a few of those types of things offered in my business that no one else does.....or they may do it, but they charge obnoxious amounts of money to do so.
 
To make things cheaper so people come to you....take a look at the things you do and see if there are ways of making them take less time. Quick example for you just to feed your head. I do lots of stuff here. Recording, producing, mixing/mastering, forensic audio, video editing, recording lessons in-studio or via video etc. With each of those comes something I offer that no one else does....so it keeps me busy. But for example....when I master something, one of the things that takes the longest for me is the pre-master editing.
 
It can take an hour or longer per song just to clean things up and man, I hate it with a passion and started charging more for "problem children" files. Then I started experimenting with different programs, different configurations of effects, different ways of thinking and going about the process....you know, like a re-evaluation period. I wound up making incredible changes that literally give me BETTER results in 5-10 minutes instead of an hour!
 
The biggest thing in my studio is the time it takes to do things because I'm a perfectionist. I have to manually get my hands on everything. Until some automatic plugin is created, I'll always do things manually as I know they will always be the way I want/need them to be. But sometimes we have to take a step back and take a look how we're doing things and investigate what other methods might be able to save time. When you save time, you save money...when you save money, you can pass that savings on to your clients and when your prices drop, you get more business.
 
I've been all word of mouth since 1999 and to this day don't have any ad's in papers, the phone book or even on my site. I don't even have a facebook page for my studio. LOL! But thank God I'm booked solid and always have room for other clients even if I have to take care of them on my personal time or during another client render. I've done what I call "specialty work" for a long time so I kept things relatively quiet and under the radar. But I bought into another studio so this extended my business to "everyone" now as I have a bigger facility and more people to help me out.
 
Anyway, just figured I'd share some of that to feed your head. The above said, even though I'm in good shape right now, I wake up every day and think of going to work at UPS part time from 4 am to 9 am just to get full benefits! This Obamacare crap has been a nightmare for me. I pay insane money for my benefits as is...now they are dropping me and the new plan will be over $100 more. UPS, here I come....that's $700 per month I won't have to pay any longer for crying out loud! ;) I don't even use the plan. Ok, wait...I better not say that. I said that about 6 years ago and on the weekend in which I said it, my appendix burst. LOL!!! Trus story! :)
 
Be well brother....I hope things get better for you and anyone else experiencing financial hard-ships.
 
-Danny
2013/10/04 17:01:18
twaddle
Steve (twaddle) you test for fxpansion too?! I don't think we ran into each other over there, did we? Or maybe my memory is failing me? It's so funny what you said about the UI. I was so against the looks of BFD 3 as well as some of the UI stuff that I thought for sure they would boot me off the team. LOL! I know it does a lot more than BFD 2 and is way more intuitive in ways....but man, I don't get the direction they went in for everything else...especially the eye-candy department and where the options are scattered about.
 
Kinda like the new Lincoln...they went from looking majestic and intimidating to small, compact and pretty much like everything else in life...scaled down and lifeless. Heck I posted on the beta forum over at fxpansion "that's why I liked the 80's....it may have looked ridiculous to some people, but we really did take pride in our appearance." or something along those lines. LOL! All that aside, it is an incredible drum program.

 
Hi Danny
Yes, I go by the name of purtington on the fx site. I only became a beta tester for BFD3 last November and have really enjoyed it. I reckon if the hours I'd put in had been paid even at minimum wage I could buy the whole fxpasnion product range by now
Not that that has much .to do with my reasons for signing up.
 
Do you go by the name of Danny on their site ? I'm sure I would have noticed if you had.
 
I made a number of hints/suggestions and complaints about the new UI but aside from the drab interface it is a lot easier to use, although for some people easy to use and easy on the eye are one in the same. I was all for keeping the kit view, I had even requested that the kit view would correspond to whatever kit piece was loaded and would change accordingly. I didn't think graphic displays were such a resource hog these days but it seems that was their main reason for abandoning the old kit view and adopting the more basic UI. I just discovered to my surprise that BFD2 is no longer available. I can't believe they'll get rid of those kits so my guess is they'll release them as an expansion pack like they did with Eldorado for the BFD1 kit.
 
You're right, it is an incredible drum program and despite having other options like EZdrummer and addictive drums all of my projects use BFD2 (now BFD3).
I just toy with the others occasionally just so I know what I'm talking about when I argue the case for BFD2. I have a genetically built in resistance to using loops or anything that I haven't created myself from scratch and as time consuming and frustrating as it can be I love the fact that I can do that so easily in BFD2/3. I'm a song writer and 9 times out of 10 I have a pretty good idea how the drums should be and it's a lot easier (all be it in my head) to create them in the prv than spend hours trawling through loops that "claim to be" in the style I write in.
 
Steve
 
 
2013/10/04 17:16:04
Bflat5
The midi files I have works great with ezdrummer, but is completely wrong in AD. It's like the cymblas are playing the drum parts. Strange and I'm not sure how to fix it.
2013/10/04 17:31:12
Bajan Blue
Bfalt - you have download midi files that are specific for Addictive Drums _ for Groove Monkee and Platinum for example, they have specific mapped downloads for AD.
Cheers
Nigel
 
2013/10/04 18:11:48
Keni
Danny Danzi
No problem guys....glad that helped you. Honestly, I really do put these drum modules through their paces which have formed my opinions. However, a lot of the good and the bad with drum modules depends on how you use them as well as the style you play. The crazier (think prog metal drums or intricate jazz) drumming will need a drum module that is just as intense. For lighter stuff or simple beats to keep time where you're not really focusing much in dynamics or cool drum fills, the drum programs earlier in my list are really good.
 
I honestly didn't mean to sound negative about any of them because they all really are awesome tools no matter how we slice it. Once you find what works for you and use a few of these things, you'll see what I was talking about. Or...depending on your individual use, maybe you won't. You know how it goes...what works for one may not work for another...or we'll get some guy to come on here that pops out of nowhere saying "well, if you do this that this and this using SD3, it allows you to do this that this and this" and the next thing you know, we learn something from someone. :)
 
Steve (twaddle) you test for fxpansion too?! I don't think we ran into each other over there, did we? Or maybe my memory is failing me? It's so funny what you said about the UI. I was so against the looks of BFD 3 as well as some of the UI stuff that I thought for sure they would boot me off the team. LOL! I know it does a lot more than BFD 2 and is way more intuitive in ways....but man, I don't get the direction they went in for everything else...especially the eye-candy department and where the options are scattered about.
 
Kinda like the new Lincoln...they went from looking majestic and intimidating to small, compact and pretty much like everything else in life...scaled down and lifeless. Heck I posted on the beta forum over at fxpansion "that's why I liked the 80's....it may have looked rediculous to some people, but we really did take pride in our appearance." or something along those lines. LOL! All that aside, it is an incredible drum program. 
 
Kenni: Glad it was helpful. Sorry to hear about the financial situation....it's not easy for most people these days, that's for sure. Studio's are really taking a hit due to people being able to get decent results on their own. They can either buy software at a decent price at Wal-Mart or Staples or heck....steal it right off the net. :( The problem there is they will take a loooong time to get what we are capable of getting for them....but people learn so fast and have so many cool tools to assist them, you're only goal has to be "ok, I need to be able to give people something they can't get anywhere else." Once you find that niche, you push that as hard as you can. I have quite a few of those types of things offered in my business that no one else does.....or they may do it, but they charge obnoxious amounts of money to do so.
 
To make things cheaper so people come to you....take a look at the things you do and see if there are ways of making them take less time. Quick example for you just to feed your head. I do lots of stuff here. Recording, producing, mixing/mastering, forensic audio, video editing, recording lessons in-studio or via video etc. With each of those comes something I offer that no one else does....so it keeps me busy. But for example....when I master something, one of the things that takes the longest for me is the pre-master editing.
 
It can take an hour or longer per song just to clean things up and man, I hate it with a passion and started charging more for "problem children" files. Then I started experimenting with different programs, different configurations of effects, different ways of thinking and going about the process....you know, like a re-evaluation period. I wound up making incredible changes that literally give me BETTER results in 5-10 minutes instead of an hour!
 
The biggest thing in my studio is the time it takes to do things because I'm a perfectionist. I have to manually get my hands on everything. Until some automatic plugin is created, I'll always do things manually as I know they will always be the way I want/need them to be. But sometimes we have to take a step back and take a look how we're doing things and investigate what other methods might be able to save time. When you save time, you save money...when you save money, you can pass that savings on to your clients and when your prices drop, you get more business.
 
I've been all word of mouth since 1999 and to this day don't have any ad's in papers, the phone book or even on my site. I don't even have a facebook page for my studio. LOL! But thank God I'm booked solid and always have room for other clients even if I have to take care of them on my personal time or during another client render. I've done what I call "specialty work" for a long time so I kept things relatively quiet and under the radar. But I bought into another studio so this extended my business to "everyone" now as I have a bigger facility and more people to help me out.
 
Anyway, just figured I'd share some of that to feed your head. The above said, even though I'm in good shape right now, I wake up every day and think of going to work at UPS part time from 4 am to 9 am just to get full benefits! This Obamacare crap has been a nightmare for me. I pay insane money for my benefits as is...now they are dropping me and the new plan will be over $100 more. UPS, here I come....that's $700 per month I won't have to pay any longer for crying out loud! ;) I don't even use the plan. Ok, wait...I better not say that. I said that about 6 years ago and on the weekend in which I said it, my appendix burst. LOL!!! Trus story! :)
 
Be well brother....I hope things get better for you and anyone else experiencing financial hard-ships.
 
-Danny



Thanks For the tips Danny...
 
I've always gotten my work the same way... Word of mouth and always been busy until I moved here as a last resort after doing 10 years of home care (both of my folks stroke victims at the same time)...
 
There just doesn't seem to be any real work here... Between the do-it-yourselfers and the lack of substantial music business (there's only one little bar that has live music in this town), it's been a lost cause...
 
Then again, I've never been much of a businessman. I've done fine taking jobs in business, but I've always had partners who drummed up the business... I'm more of a tech and did all the hardware installs, maintenance and the likes... ;-)
 
Up here most of my work has been setting up and supporting home studios for clients... with a few album recordings here and there and some odds and ends work... I really should have moved back to SF as I wanted to.... But hindsight is a wonderful things...
 
What I'll do here I don't know... But I know that I will not sell any gear anymore so I will find temp homes for such if it ever comes to that... I'd rather lose my house than the monitor speakers I searched for so long (P.A.S. Studio 1's) and they were only a few grand... Guitars? I've laready lost more guitars than I want to remember losing! <sigh>... that will not happen again until I die!
 
I'll take the Mac Pro running win7 under bootcamp with Sonar X2, my interface and some guitars in the car and connect where and when I can...
 
I hope this never comes about, but it would be nice to be up to date with Sonar... Especially as I'm so uncomfortable in X2 I have big hopes that X3 will suite me better! ;-)
 
We'll see what the future holds in store....
 
Thanks again... I truly appreciate your time and thoughts...
 
Keni
 
 
2013/10/04 18:28:54
Danny Danzi
twaddle
Steve (twaddle) you test for fxpansion too?! I don't think we ran into each other over there, did we? Or maybe my memory is failing me? It's so funny what you said about the UI. I was so against the looks of BFD 3 as well as some of the UI stuff that I thought for sure they would boot me off the team. LOL! I know it does a lot more than BFD 2 and is way more intuitive in ways....but man, I don't get the direction they went in for everything else...especially the eye-candy department and where the options are scattered about.
 
Kinda like the new Lincoln...they went from looking majestic and intimidating to small, compact and pretty much like everything else in life...scaled down and lifeless. Heck I posted on the beta forum over at fxpansion "that's why I liked the 80's....it may have looked ridiculous to some people, but we really did take pride in our appearance." or something along those lines. LOL! All that aside, it is an incredible drum program.

 
Hi Danny
Yes, I go by the name of purtington on the fx site. I only became a beta tester for BFD3 last November and have really enjoyed it. I reckon if the hours I'd put in had been paid even at minimum wage I could buy the whole fxpasnion product range by now
Not that that has much .to do with my reasons for signing up.
 
Do you go by the name of Danny on their site ? I'm sure I would have noticed if you had.
 
I made a number of hints/suggestions and complaints about the new UI but aside from the drab interface it is a lot easier to use, although for some people easy to use and easy on the eye are one in the same. I was all for keeping the kit view, I had even requested that the kit view would correspond to whatever kit piece was loaded and would change accordingly. I didn't think graphic displays were such a resource hog these days but it seems that was their main reason for abandoning the old kit view and adopting the more basic UI. I just discovered to my surprise that BFD2 is no longer available. I can't believe they'll get rid of those kits so my guess is they'll release them as an expansion pack like they did with Eldorado for the BFD1 kit.
 
You're right, it is an incredible drum program and despite having other options like EZdrummer and addictive drums all of my projects use BFD2 (now BFD3).
I just toy with the others occasionally just so I know what I'm talking about when I argue the case for BFD2. I have a genetically built in resistance to using loops or anything that I haven't created myself from scratch and as time consuming and frustrating as it can be I love the fact that I can do that so easily in BFD2/3. I'm a song writer and 9 times out of 10 I have a pretty good idea how the drums should be and it's a lot easier (all be it in my head) to create them in the prv than spend hours trawling through loops that "claim to be" in the style I write in.
 
Steve
 
 




Hahaha we've talked a few times on the site, Steve. You'll know me....I go by MAJICHANDS over there which is the first and only nic I've ever had on the net. :) Yeah some crazy changes over there...but we can only hope it's for the best and we'll find out how it pans out in the future. The worst case scenario, you and I have some great drum programs. I'm satisfied enough to where if nothing else came out, between my real kits and the sampled kits I have plus Drumagog and my insane sample library there....I'm in good shape until the day I die. :)
 
-Danny
2013/10/04 18:36:14
Danny Danzi
Keni
Thanks For the tips Danny...
 
I've always gotten my work the same way... Word of mouth and always been busy until I moved here as a last resort after doing 10 years of home care (both of my folks stroke victims at the same time)...
 
There just doesn't seem to be any real work here... Between the do-it-yourselfers and the lack of substantial music business (there's only one little bar that has live music in this town), it's been a lost cause...
 
Then again, I've never been much of a businessman. I've done fine taking jobs in business, but I've always had partners who drummed up the business... I'm more of a tech and did all the hardware installs, maintenance and the likes... ;-)
 
Up here most of my work has been setting up and supporting home studios for clients... with a few album recordings here and there and some odds and ends work... I really should have moved back to SF as I wanted to.... But hindsight is a wonderful things...
 
What I'll do here I don't know... But I know that I will not sell any gear anymore so I will find temp homes for such if it ever comes to that... I'd rather lose my house than the monitor speakers I searched for so long (P.A.S. Studio 1's) and they were only a few grand... Guitars? I've laready lost more guitars than I want to remember losing! <sigh>... that will not happen again until I die!
 
I'll take the Mac Pro running win7 under bootcamp with Sonar X2, my interface and some guitars in the car and connect where and when I can...
 
I hope this never comes about, but it would be nice to be up to date with Sonar... Especially as I'm so uncomfortable in X2 I have big hopes that X3 will suite me better! ;-)
 
We'll see what the future holds in store....
 
Thanks again... I truly appreciate your time and thoughts...
 
Keni 




I hear ya Kenni...it's a tough business any way you look at it. Let's just hope things get better for everyone. :) I'm in the same boat with the whole gear thing. I'm so locked with the stuff I have, I'd rather lose more important things than that special gear. All the best man. :)
 
-Danny
2013/10/05 00:24:27
Bflat5
Bajan Blue
Bfalt - you have download midi files that are specific for Addictive Drums _ for Groove Monkee and Platinum for example, they have specific mapped downloads for AD.
Cheers
Nigel
 




I didn't download anything specific for AD. I thought maybe it acted like ezdrummer. The midi I used was just a drum track export from guitar pro. Works great for ezd.
2013/10/05 20:21:27
Grem
Bur each drum program handle certain info differently.

you can change them yourself with drum maps.
2013/10/05 23:31:23
Blades
Hey Danny - how is the Roland TD triggering?  As you can see in the avatar, I've got a kit (TD-20 + tdw-20 card) and I've NEVER been satisfied with the triggering of anything other than the module.  the hats don't work right, there always seems to be some kind of sacrifice to even try to use any of the sound modules.  And in the end, the loss of nuance like hits near the edge of the head, choking cymbals, hi-hat subtleties, and many other things lead me back to the module.  It would be nice if there were options for me to use outside of the module once in a while - though I actually like the way the TDW-20 sounds for the most part and can get just about anything I want out of it.
 
So - how is that triggering with AD out of the box?  Still waiting to "earn" a but more through my website to justify itself so I can make the purchase, but this is one of the things that interests me about the X3 version.  Thoughts are appreciated.
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