• SONAR
  • SONAR & IK's ARC System/plugin (p.8)
2009/12/31 20:32:58
Zo
i'm using it and while i found it very disturbing in the begining (was so used to my "dirty" sound" it absolutly rocks !! adam P11A and sub , genelec 8020a and sub ...all crazy good improvement , correction of eq , phase and delays between speakers ....

for those who wonder , i listen to all my cd and my mp3 in winanp witch has a module to integrate any vst so , i'm listening to my references with arc !!!
2009/12/31 22:06:20
dmmi
Bit....

Do you own it?

I don't....and I'm sceptical as well.  But I'm also looking for a "quick fix" for my room.

If not, then why try to discredit anything that someone has had a positive experience with.  I believe that is rude.   Don't try to take that away from them....just leave it be. 
 
It's like me saying your music sucks, when you clearly enjoy what you do, and you think it sounds great.  (note...I don't have this opinion of your music....just an analogy to let others enjoy themselves!)

hmmm...

Here is some logic outside of your physics mumbo jumbo (which I do understand clearly....but also understand the principles of this system)

If someone has had such a great experience, and others have, and the system is still on the market, and there arn't outrages of dis-satified customers.....says to me it doesn't suck

by the way.....where is the mic input for your outboard EQ to initialize the advanced correction algorythm and move those little sliders for you?
 
 
Danny:
 
Honestly,
 
What is your opinion of the ARC compared to KRK's Ergo?
 
2009/12/31 23:10:53
John
I believe that one can EQ a speaker system and have said so for a long time now. The system being talked about here automates the process but the basic principle is much the same as what I have been advocating for years now. It comes to me from the HI FI stereo audiophile days that I have been involved for nearly all my life.

The notion that monitors can't benefit from a good EQ puzzles me. Its been around for a very long time and is used for this purpose longer then many of you have been alive. Why not try it and then make comments?

The Edirol MX 16 DX has a form of this built in and it works.
2010/01/01 02:14:33
Danny Danzi
Zo


i'm using it and while i found it very disturbing in the begining (was so used to my "dirty" sound" it absolutly rocks !! adam P11A and sub , genelec 8020a and sub ...all crazy good improvement , correction of eq , phase and delays between speakers ....

for those who wonder , i listen to all my cd and my mp3 in winanp witch has a module to integrate any vst so , i'm listening to my references with arc !!!

Zo, can you please tell me how you are using it in winamp? Do I have to have the pro version or something? I can't make it recognize my plugs no matter how hard I try. I have the latest winamp version...and I can't get it to use ARC. I would so love to be able to use it there because winamp is what I use for wave files. Thanks in advance. :)
2010/01/01 03:11:11
Danny Danzi
dmmi


Bit....

Do you own it?

I don't....and I'm sceptical as well.  But I'm also looking for a "quick fix" for my room.

If not, then why try to discredit anything that someone has had a positive experience with.  I believe that is rude.   Don't try to take that away from them....just leave it be. 
 
It's like me saying your music sucks, when you clearly enjoy what you do, and you think it sounds great.  (note...I don't have this opinion of your music....just an analogy to let others enjoy themselves!)

hmmm...

Here is some logic outside of your physics mumbo jumbo (which I do understand clearly....but also understand the principles of this system)

If someone has had such a great experience, and others have, and the system is still on the market, and there arn't outrages of dis-satified customers.....says to me it doesn't suck

by the way.....where is the mic input for your outboard EQ to initialize the advanced correction algorythm and move those little sliders for you?
 
 
Danny:
 
Honestly,
 
What is your opinion of the ARC compared to KRK's Ergo?
 

dmmi, my thoughts exactly only I'm a bitflipper lover, so though I agree with you, my little rant here is not directed at him. :) I can't tell you how many times I've gotten into arguments with people about this plug on other forums as well as in real life. It's to the point where I don't even want to share any info about it and let it remain my little secret. I've yelled at the top of my lungs to several "BUT DO YOU HAVE IT AND HAVE YOU USED IT TO MAKE SUCH CLAIMS?! UNTIL YOU DO, DRINK A 55 GALLON DRUM OF STFU!!!"
 
Seriously, it's like me saying guitar plug sims suck if I'm a tube amp man that has never tried one. The biggest problem with the recording field is all the technical mumbo jumbo that doesn't do a single fookin thing to make someone a better engineer.  Most times, people like that speak for the sake of having a voice in an attempt to intellectually intimidate others. Pff...if I had a penny for everytime I've called one of those jokers out to put their money where their mouth is and post their best recording against mine, Donald Trump would be my butler. I'll use a Realtek soundcard on this net box here and smoke 60% of the dudes talkin crap about the aesthetics of audio and I won't even use a mic pre. LOL! Sorry man, I just get sick of that stuff really. Rant over. LOL! ;)
 
To answer your question about the Ergo, I've never tried it so I can't make any comments there. I also don't know anyone using it to get any feedback. I have tried the JBL monitors with the correction pack that comes with it...and ARC obliterates it in every way. No contest.
 
John: though your theory has merit, ARC works way better than an eq man. It doesn't just do a sweetspot, it does several and compensates for reflections as well. It's something you'd just have to try to appreciate man, that's all I can really say. In my "C room" here, which I call "The Cell Block", I'm in a 12x12 room loaded with gear, bad positioning, and a whole bunch of other stuff that would make you and everyone on this forum cringe, throw up, throw things at me as well as laugh. However, the sound that comes out is a totally different animal and the way it transfers onto other systems is what totally blows me away. In my B room where the room is a little bigger and correctly set up for audio, I can't tell the difference when I mix there or in the C room. Same monitors in there...Adam A-7 with the Sub 8 as well as a set of Genelecs.
 
The A room is completely set up for audio and has some big guns for speakers, so the sound there is a little different due to the size of the speakers used. I have an A-7 rig there as well for nearfields as well as a newer pair of NS-10's, Tannoy, Tascam, and the big Genelecs which I use most of the time there. But still, in every room I work in over here, ARC is used and it's totally changed everything. The cool thing about it that you have to keep in mind is, you don't just do one sweet spot. I did 18 on my B and C room, and 32 on my A room. This allows ARC to make your monitors sound good no matter where you sit, stand, lay...it's just something you have to experience. I don't know how it does it, I don't know about the science or inner sanctum of how it works or if someone can prove it's a load of crap and to be honest, I don't really care. All that I know is it works perfectly for me and all that I do here. 
 
What I ALSO know is that I have not mixed a song in 4-6 hours in my life to where I didn't have to question what I was hearing until ARC. I didn't have to make copies to take to my car any longer and I didn't have to send stuff to the 5 engineers I have counted on for many years to bail my sorry ass out. I don't second guess anything and what I hear, is what I get everywhere. So whatever this thing does, it's made an incredible difference for me. I remember when mixing one song took a week or longer. Out to the car, writing things down while I listened, coming in and trying to make changes that I couldn't even hear to fix. The only things I may change after mixing something, are levels which are subjective. The instrumentation in all the mixes I do today is completely audible on all counts due to me being able to draw the right eq curve and hear the right stuff on the first try. Hell, this thing even fixed a set of Altec Lansing pc speakers that have a sub. I can even mix or record on them now too...go figure.
 
My final thoughts....if you have any issues mixing to where you can't make the right calls and purposely make cd's to check them in your car only to write down changes that you have to guess on when you come back in your studio, or constantly email mp3's to other people to get their take on your mix, ARC will be the best little investment you ever made and you won't have to do that stuff any longer. If you do NOT have these problems and what you mix is what you hear, you don't need ARC.
 
Anyone skeptical that hasn't tried it, trust me....it works, it truly works. One thing I do not do, is brag about something unless it really works. I'm telling you, God is my witness, I was ready to totally bag recording and just use my place as a pre-production studio for my head and all I had was the C Room. ARC not only totally helped me to love recording again, but recording is no longer a challenge for me. I feel like recording something, I lay it down and it's done and sounding just as I wanted it to. Unless of course, the song I had in my head sucks when I finally record it and hear it. LOL!
 
It has also helped me to have one of the busiest businesses I could have ever dreamed of as I do at least 12 hours worth of production for clients every day...from mastering, producing, recording, mixing, it's just been off the hook and I'm booked solid until November of 2011. This made me build rooms A and B because they were necessities. I'm supposed to be a performing artist, not an engineer. LOL!! But hey, it's awesome work and I love it. I wake up every day with a smile on my face with a new project to do as well as some new music to listen to and work with that I would have never listened to or bought. I would have never gotten involved to the extent I am now if ARC didn't help me out as much as it has. That's really the best way I can explain it. :) If the whole concept of it is a joke or a scam then I must be an exception to the joke because the audio that I have coming out of here comes out exactly the way I want it to at all times....so help me God. ;)
2010/01/01 11:24:17
GHOSTNOTES
Been using it for about a month now and so far, it is the best plugin i have purchased. It definitely helps in my limited knowledge of mixing. The first time i set it up, like some others here i just did the suggested minimum samples BY HAND and the improvement was good. I was just in a hurry to try it out. The next time i did it, i was using height measurements and tape on the floor with 24 samples and the difference was dramati,c as far as flatness AND sound staging/separation.

 On my drum kit, i should be using 13 to 14 mics but i only have 8 so some of them are shared. For example I have one mic that covers my 8"and 10" steel toms, it also covers my hihat, snare, ride cymbal and china cymbal. I had (by luck i guess) no trouble getting the levels good  but was dealing with several types of frequencies and could never get it right. If i wanted to cut out the "ring" in my snare i would lose some high end ,my toms and china and they would sound murky. But now, after using ARC everything sounds perfect....at least by my standards. I'm not sure but I'm guessing it not only anaylizes the frequency but the type also for each input, separates them internally then corrects them then sends it out according to your preset?? Kind of like melodyne.

I'm helping some online friends put together a Rush tribute list and after using ARC they are telling me it sounds 100x better..... I'm not telling 

The monitors I'm using came from a high end Kenwood mini stereo and i was curious on how well they responded. So i asked here a short time ago what would be a good app to measure them. It turns out they are actually pretty good so I'm sure that helps.

Is it for every one?? If you have a professional studio, then probably not. You can get the same results or better in my opinion.But for someone like me who has limited equipment and resources you can't beat it.     
2010/01/01 12:01:44
tarsier
From bitflipper:
'd be satisfied if any disinterested third party published a detailed evaluation. But I have looked and so far I have found only magazine reviews that either paraphrase IK's marketing literature
...
There have been some AES papers on the subject of room correction,


How about The Subjective and Objective Evaluation of Room Correction Products? Given at the AES convention.

The study was a double-blind listening test of various "room correction" products. (Quotes used because the author has acknowledged that "room correction" is an unfortunate name. It doesn't correct the room at all).  It included the Audyessy product which ARC is based on, but sadly it doesn't name names when it comes to conclusions. 

Quick summary:  Room correction products can significantly improve the sound of a listening space, but only when implemented well. One product was implemented so poorly that it was evaluated as sounding worse that the un-corrected room.  (that's where I wished he would have named names.)

Disclaimer: The author of the paper works for Harman International which has developed their own "room correction" system.  But if you read the paper (not just the blog) I think you'll see that his scientific method of double-blind listening tests is sound.

I also highly recommend his whole blog.

2010/01/01 19:05:18
Zo
what's up Danny !!

got winamp lite and a plugin (i don't remeber mine as i'm on hiolidayz skiing , without my comp, writting from a cyber..)

try this it should work ...

http://www.winamp.com/plu...t-winamp-bridge/146317

if not will send you mine as soon as i can ...

take care
2010/01/01 19:08:03
Zo
2010/01/01 21:00:26
jamescollins
I just received my ARC system yesterday and spent the whole morning setting it up. All I can say is wow. And I'm getting excited about upgrading to a Grace Design/Lynx front end, but you know what? I very much doubt it's going to make such a huge improvement in my mixes as the little black and orange box which arrived at my doorstep yesterday will.

I am quite analytical too, and really like to know every technical detail of all software/hardware before I buy it. But there ain't much real, detailed info on how this thing works out there. So I too was quite doubtful that ARC could live up to all the hype (due largely I think to the ridiculous statements made by magazine reviewers as bit has pointed out). But it's cheap (in the world of audio production) so I thought I'd give it a go. 

I'm convinced that it's the most significant purchase I've made for a long time - and it only cost AUD$390!

What blew me away was the huge improvement in the stereo image. It's like this whole new world has opened up - I just want to sit there and listen to music all day on what seems like my new system! My room was already treated, and now it feels like the perfect listening environment. I suspect this will be the end of countless remixes to achieve the desired tonal balance.

The conclusion of this long thread surely must be, JUST BUY IT, YOU WON'T REGRET IT!
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