• Computers
  • Breaking news: Presonus is now working, but pops and clicking won't go away
2017/06/20 03:20:19
vladasyn
Hey. I have Presonus StudioLive 24.4.2 (legacy). Trying to make it work with Kaby Lake 7770K and ROG Maximus Hero  Z270 motherboard. 
Hey there. Update: After 4 month of troubleshooting and waiting for Presonus to release new Microsoft signed drivers, I finally was able to make it work. It was not problem with the driver, motherboard computer, it was actually not compatible FW card. Yes, this card worked well in my old computer- but I accidently learned that the chipset it has is not compatable with Z170 and up motherboards. No one could give me this information- not Presonus tech support, not even SIIG tech support for the card. 
 
The Syba-SY-PEX30016-Firewire-XIO2213B (TI XI02213B chipset) came this morning, I installed it and it works! I cant believe I actually heard sound coming out of this thing!
Now I do still have pops and clicks. I had buffer set to 32, 64, 128, 256 and 512- all had clicks. At 512 it is tolerable. My old computer was running at 512 with no clicks, but I don't feel comfortable to increase it further as I use a lot of software synths, I am a keyboard player, so low latency is everything for me. At 512, I have one click at about every 20 seconds.
 
I ran LatencyMon and DPCLAT monitor. LatencyMon says my latency is high and I should expect clicks and pops, while DPCLAT showed my latency at lowest red area. It has green area, yellow area and red area, so it is partially in red, partially in yellow. I do not understand why I would have such a high latency on a brand new top of the line build. I disabled the Gigabit internet, NVidia Audio driver, Realtec Digital Output, Realtec Hi Def audio, all audio from 4 of my monitors, I have no more devices to disable. What else can cause latency?
 
Another problem is that I already bought MOTU 1248 and 16A- 2 units, and they already at my house, waiting for me to install Thunderbolt card and test them. I don't know if I should send both back, keep just one or keep both. I could have all my older hardware synths still connected to Presonus and use newer better synths through MOTU, but now that I don't need 24 channels, I could buy some Class A interface. I want to try Thunderbolt- I already bought all cards and cables and everything is here waiting. Should I install at least one MOTU or send it back? I did already open one box... 
 
Thank you. 
2017/06/25 02:44:00
vladasyn
I was able to decrease latency to 128 buffer size and play audio back and use Omnisphere without any issues by disabling gaming mode and changing all privacy settings to Off. Then I loaded U-he Diva and the pops and clicks  returned. My latency monitors still saying that my real time computer performance is bad. Jim, need your help! In this video, at about 18 minutes in, he says that he tested laptop with SATA SSD and his DPC Latency Checker is staying in green (see in left corner). Then he used PCIe drive and his latency went all in the red area. This is similar to what I have on my system. But I am confused. What PCIe drive he can have in a lap top? I am concerned because I have M.2 drive running in PCIe mode. He says at the end also that PCIE drives are not good for real time. I got M.2 drive for its speed. Was I wrong? I really don't have anything else to disable and it still shows in red. Thank you. 
 
Good video to understand buffers and latency https://www.youtube.com/w..?v=GUsLLEkswzE&t=4s
2017/06/25 11:00:44
fireberd
"In Depth Latency Tests" comes with Latency Mon.  Run that and see if it helps or shows anything. 
There is a description of what it does on the web site. 
http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon_idlt
 
DPC Latency Checker is not valid for Win 8 or Win 10 as is noted on their web site.
 
Gaming mode should not be used or as Sonar support has noted, "Your DAW is not a Gaming PC". 
 
Although I have an older Z170 ASUS ROG MAXIMUS VIII Hero, it does not have any Latency Mon issues.  I am not overclocking or even have the ASUS AI Suite running to avoid any potential issues.  I only use the built in Windows Defender, no 3rd party Antivirus software.  No Skype, etc.  Minimum as I subscribe to the "KISS" principle (Keep It Simple Stupid).
 
I am using a Firewire PCIe card interface for my MOTU 896Mk3 Hybrid and no problems.  
2017/06/25 15:40:49
Jim Roseberry
Latency Mon should list the culprit.
You have to get your DPC Latency in check... otherwise, it won't matter what interface you run (you'll have glitches).
2017/06/25 18:22:36
azslow3
Jim Roseberry
Latency Mon should list the culprit.
You have to get your DPC Latency in check... otherwise, it won't matter what interface you run (you'll have glitches).

I will take the opportunity to ask related question, I have digged the internet, made tests with interfaces I have, but still do not know even approximate answer...
 
Which DPC Latency is acceptable for particular buffer size/count?
I mean the absolute upper limit is obvious (the time of corresponding buffer), but in practice the tolerance is much smaller. I mean is 1ms still ok for 64? Or should it be 0.5ms for 64 but can be let say 1.5ms for 256? I know it is not so simple, other parameters are also involved. But as I wrote, I am a bit confused even with the order of this numbers (I have old "low end" interfaces, I guess RME should tolerate biggest possible numbers, but what are these numbers?)
2017/06/25 21:10:40
abacab
vladasyn
I was able to decrease latency to 128 buffer size and play audio back and use Omnisphere without any issues by disabling gaming mode and changing all privacy settings to Off. Then I loaded U-he Diva and the pops and clicks  returned. My latency monitors still saying that my real time computer performance is bad. Jim, need your help! In this video, at about 18 minutes in, he says that he tested laptop with SATA SSD and his DPC Latency Checker is staying in green (see in left corner). Then he used PCIe drive and his latency went all in the red area. This is similar to what I have on my system. But I am confused. What PCIe drive he can have in a lap top? I am concerned because I have M.2 drive running in PCIe mode. He says at the end also that PCIE drives are not good for real time. I got M.2 drive for its speed. Was I wrong? I really don't have anything else to disable and it still shows in red. Thank you. 
 
Good video to understand buffers and latency https://www.youtube.com/w..?v=GUsLLEkswzE&t=4s




That is a brilliant video.  I ran across it a while back in another post, and it really explains what DPC latency is, and why you cannot expect to run real-time audio if your DPC latency is too great.
 
DPC latency is a separate issue from audio latency.  It is strictly a measure of how capable your CPU is regarding filling your audio buffers, by keeping it supplied 100% of the time.  If the CPU is occupied by another task or device, and doesn't fill the buffer in time, an audible glitch will occur.
 
Increasing your buffer size really only increases your audio latency, and gives your CPU a little more time to fill the buffer, but this is not a cure all and has limits.  So the real question needs to be, what is interfering with the CPU in a new build, with the latest components?
 
That is an interesting angle with the PCIe drives making additional demand on the CPU.  I wonder if it may be worthwhile to test with only SATA drives and compare test results?
2017/06/26 01:53:03
vladasyn
Thank you for your reply. As I did run the LatencyMon as it says- no good. But I don't think it is capable to tell what exactly interrupts and lacks CPU. It is like that commercial about Dentist and Dental Monitor. "You have cavity. Oh, it is bad... Lunch?" What is the point to tell me, "Oh, it is bad!" if it can not tell what is bad. It may be me but those numbers do not tell me anything. It says,
"One problem may be related to power management. Disable CPU Throttling in Control Panel. Update BIOS". My BIOS updated with March release. What CPU Throttling? I am not overclocking it and not underclocking it. I have XMP profile on for memory to run at 3000Mhz, which it designed to run at per memory specification. There was option to also O.C the CPU, and with that option, it would increase CPU to like 4.5Mhz. Now it is at 4.2Mhz- I set it so that memory would go up but not CPU numbers. I have power plan set to "Performance". 
 
Yesterday, latencyMon said something about my networking, I did not change anything but today it does not mention it. 
Highest reported routine execution time 223.522853 dxgkrnl.sys- DirectX Graphics Kernel Microsoft Corporation. 
 
Highest reported DCP routine Execution time 2053.390238 storport.sys- Microsoft Corporation. 
 
Here is an article on Storport.sys. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/storage/storport-driver
It has something to do with SCSI and RAID. I don't have SCSI drives, adopters or RAID adopters. I do have 7 drives in this build, but I am not sure this has anything to do with Storport. 
 
What can I do with DirectX Graphics Microsoft Corporation? I do have 4 monitors, 3 connected to NVIDIA, One to onboard graphics, it is not currently on. I can not disable Microsoft DirectX! 
NVidia kernel Windows Mode Driver. So it has high number of DPC count and highest number of execution. So it is working, it doing something. What can I do about it? 
 
High Definition Audio Bus Driver. I assume this is from realtek? I can disable it, then I will not have sound when my audio interfaces not on. Some time I just want to play youtube video. 
 
I can e-mail a text of this report if somebody knows how to address these issues. Thank you in advance. 
2017/06/26 03:11:52
abacab
Try SATA only...
2017/06/26 03:33:40
vladasyn
What you mean by "Try SATA only"? I have 1TB Samsung Evo 960 M.2 drive, this is high performance drive that cost $450 just for the drive. It has
Max Sequential ReadUp to 3200 MBps
Max Sequential Write Up to 1900 MBpsM.2 has something like 10GB/sec as opposite to 6Gb/sec of regular SATA SSD. Also it can run in PCIE and SATA mode, I am not sure what is for what perpose. But I know that if ran in SATA mode, it disables some SATA drives and I have all 6 drives taken. "When the M.2_1 Socket 3 is operating in SATA mode, SATA port 1 will be disabled.". I have drive in port one this means it runs in PCIEx4 mode. I have no idea. I also have Marvel controller card in PCIeX4 and this is actually the port I supposed to put Thunderbolt in. 
2017/06/26 08:27:30
azslow3
vladasyn
Thank you for your reply. As I did run the LatencyMon as it says- no good. But I don't think it is capable to tell what exactly interrupts and lacks CPU.

It say "no good" when one number was too hi at least once, you it shows where it was too hi:
 

Yesterday, latencyMon said something about my networking, I did not change anything but today it does not mention it. 

Probably ndis. Depends either you have network activity during LatencyMon running.
Inducted by network driver.
 

Highest reported routine execution time 223.522853 dxgkrnl.sys- DirectX Graphics Kernel Microsoft Corporation. 

Inducted by NVIDIA driver. But that number should not produce audio glitch on 128.
 

Highest reported DCP routine Execution time 2053.390238 storport.sys- Microsoft Corporation. 

Inducted by storage driver. And that number can produce glitches.
So in direction of: https://www.sysnative.com/forums/windows-10-a/22482-dpc-latency-too-high-due-storport-sys-audio-pops.html
You need to check which drivers are used for your drives and check the internet for problem reports, then eventually upgrade/downgrade/replace them.
 
"Hi speed" device/driver does not mean "real time" device/driver. "Real time" mode/device/driver usually means it works slower. F.e. low frequency DSP outperform in latency any general purpose GHz CPU, since it calculates "2+2" in predictable (guarantied) time while general purpose CPU USUALLY calculates it 1000 times faster, but SOMETIMES has unfortunate moments and does that slower. PC components (CPU, MB, Disks) never publish even approximate inducted by hardware/software latency. So producers are free to make horrible in latency products (99.9% of customers will not notice that).
 
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