originally posted in coffee house and moved here


Hi, Coffee House.  Long time no see :D

I've been making live electronic music lately (well, a reasonable facsimile of such), and I'm finding that my little Yamaha toy keyboard just doesn't provide me with enough sounds (it's got 100 sounds, and maybe 2 of them are useable ).  I'm still chasing my dream of collecting and building synths!

Anyways, I want to buy a vintage/retro synthesizer (preferably one with a built-in keyboard, but I'd go rackmount if I can get cool sounds).  I know I won't be able to afford an actual analogue synth, but I've heard good things about FM synthesizers (well, not so much that they're good, but that they can make some interesting sounds).

I dig the FM sound, and I'm looking for a synth with some versatility and programmable parameters (if I have to program via PC application, that's fine by me).  Knobs and jog wheels are cool, it's just that the vast majority of affordable FM synths I've seen tend to have internal parameters that you have to edit via external means.

I'm wanting something to be the driving force (that is, all the instruments) in my new project.  I'll be making dungeon synth music (it's rad, look it up) and ambient tracks.  I also want something that I can use for lead when I'm doing my more conventional live electronic (techno, house, trance) music.

Any recommendations as to a good, affordable FM synthesizer?  In an ideal world, I want something as cheap as possible.  I'll say below $200 is reasonable, but if I can get my hands on something usable for $20-$50 I certainly wouldn't turn my nose up at it.  Thanks for the advice, Coffee House peeps  


Addendum:  I am specifically looking for cheesy-sounding FM synthesizers.  These can go for really, really cheap, and to me their cheapness is part of their charm.  Right now I'm looking into a Yamaha TX-802 with a MIDI controller to get that super-digital, super-80s synth sound.

Above all, I'm looking for personal recommendations from people who've gotten good use out of their synths.

Thanks, all!  :D

Hey Tyson, The TX802 would certainly be a good contender. Also some of those 4 op models like DX11 might be had for pretty cheap money too. If you get either of those send me a PM and I can send you my DX 7 library. (TX802 is compatible with standard DX7 sounds) I have also got some 4 op sounds as well. 

I am a bit of a hardware synth lover myself. Actually I have just come into possession of a Roland JD800 which is a rather classy synth for sure. I have got two Kurzweil K2000's, 2 EMU samplers, a Yamaha A4000 and a Korg M1 and now the JD 800. I must admit the ability to edit patches on the JD is rather good. 

But you know despite having those hardware machines I don't use them all that much. I just think the virtual synths are so good now. There must be some classy but cheesy VST's around too. They are probably free as well. 

For digital synthesis it is probably better to go w/ virtual models.  Digital synthesizers are basically dedictated cpus but modern computers can do the same maths w/o breaking a sweat.  For FM synthesis there are many choices.  Toxic Biohazard is probably my favorite, and Sytrus is very good and will load in DX-7 patches.  Both are from Fruity Loops.

If you need a hardware synth and can't afford analog, used gear is about the only way to go.  The DX and TX stuff is good but getting old.

@

I know its not exactly what you wanted, but I have always wanted an Alesis Andromeda. They just look and sound amazing. One day...

If you really dig FM then a DX7 can be had for peanuts.

the DX7/TX7 can be found for very little money on Craig's List or eBay. These were the machines that really drove the whole 80's synth thing. You'll recognize the sounds immediately! If you are not looking for those specific sounds I suggest looking for a TX-81z. I still have two in the rack and use them frequently. The TX-802 and TX-816 are also very cool FM synths, basically a bunch of TX7s in a box, but they may not fit your requirements, since they are rack mounts. Not to de-rail you, but is there a reason you want a hardware FM synth? It seems like a strange request because the NI FM-8 will do anything any of these will do, and a lot more. And, FM hardware synths are notoriously difficult to program, and, the converters in those older devices are, well, old. Unless you are looking specifically for that sound you'd be better served, for FM anyway, with a software synth. Basically the DX7 is a special purpose computer that happens to use FM synthesis techniques to make sounds. Just an observation...

I'm looking for a DX7 right now.  It's kind of the "one I want".  From what I've seen, it's like the Cadillac of super-cheesy, crappy 80s sounds.  :D

I'm looking for FM synthesizers because I like their really digital sound.  I like the 80s sound, and specifically, because I've listened to a fair amount of dungeon synth lately that relies solely on FM synthesis, and I'm really digging the overall feel.  And as for them being hard to program, I'm always wanting to learn new things, so I look at it more as a chance to grow (as absolutely stupid as that may sound, haha).

I'm looking for just hardware because I don't have a portable computer (I have a laptop, but I would never trust it to stay working during a show).  I think a dedicated synthesizer would be more useful performance-wise because there's less to go wrong (that is, there's a million things that can go wrong carrying around my crappy, blue screen-prone laptop).  Aside from that, I've got on a new make-with-less kick in the last few months and I'm trying to put together tracks without involving software and VSTs.  It's just a philosophy that I'm experimenting with for now because I'm wanting to get to a place where I can perform tracks live without having to depend on software (though I'm sure hardware will present its own pitfalls).

I just put up my USB MIDI keyboard on ebay so I can afford a straight MIDI-only keyboard that I can plug into rackmount synths.  I really want a DX7, but Yamaha put out quite a few DX7-type rackmount synths, and some of them are even more feature-rich than the original DX7.  I just need to find a MIDI keyboard (I've got my eyes on a MK-4902 to control my synths).

The DX series does the done-to-death 80s stuff, but it is a serious synthesizer.  W/ the 4 OP versions I was able to program some wild, non-acoustic sounds.  As far as the programming, the single line read out and single controller makes it hard to program. FM is a rather difficult kind of synthesis to predict changes to the output sound, and the single line LED/single increment controller makes it a pain.

But I understand your problem w/ live computers.  Just be aware there are problems w/ hardware, esp. old hardware, too.

Have fun.

@

A DX7 is not a bad choice and you must be able to pick one up for reasonable money. Plus I can send you my DX library which has about 150 banks of sounds. The battery may be low and need replacing but apart from that there is not a lot that can go wrong with them. They are pretty solid too.

One thing is you may be able to pick up a DX7 editor software either cheap or free and this makes it a whole lot easier to program. Also my library will have all the sounds you could ever want probably and all you will have to do is start with a preset and perhaps edit it.

There are no effects in a DX7. I used to run it through a chorus ensemble pedal live and add reverb from a sep unit live.

The 80's was also very well dominated with analog synths too not just DX sounds so let us not forget them either. I had them all then. But the DX is a pretty good instrument especially if you can get multiple DX sounds going as in the DX7 MKII (there are 2 DX layers in that model so keep an eye out for that too) or some extra TX7 module(s) that you may also pickup cheap. Even one DX with a TX module will sound pretty cool. I have got some very fat analog sounds for the DX that came out much later than the instrument itself. At first DX sounds were not great but later the patches became much much better.

The hardware synth on stage idea is a good one and even today the laptop on stage is still not as reliable as a hardware synth. I have a friend who has exhausted all the possibilites as far as running virtual synths live and he has come to the conclusion he still needs an actual synth on stage. He is saying that the virtual thing can be done and it is amazing but it also has the potential to completely let you down as has happened to him a few times. He is looking at the Korg Kronos which is probaly the best hardware keyboard on the planet right now. But the Roland Jupier 8 is not bad either!!

When Chick Corea came out here to Australia in 2007 for the Melbourne Jazz fesitval he was playing a Mac Laptop and it froze right in the middle of a tune. Chick was pretty cool about it though. He did have a Rhodes and a piano and a few Yamaha synths on stage so he was able to finish the tune. He announced just as well we have got some real instruments up here!

Hey Jeff, I'd love to check out your DX7 library.

I've heard nothing but bad things about editing patches on the DX7, so I figure setting up my sounds through a PC application is probably the only way to go :D

I know literally nothing about FM synthesis, so I'm excited about learning exactly how it works.  I'll probably try to find a VST that mirror's the DX7 and then learn what all of the parameters mean and how they affect the sound so I'll be prepared for when I can get my hands on one.

I'm thinking about getting a fat sound with these old synthesizers, and a though occurred:  what if I got more than one rackmount module?  Could I run my MIDI out to both of the simultaneously to get a dual-voice kind of thing?  Maybe thicken up the sound that way?

Just kicking around ideas  :D