Hi
 
Am new here, probably this has been answered/covered elsewhere and so would not mind being re-directed
 
I have not been able to figure out how to record midi and would appreciate some guidance/assistance
 
Here is the problem
 
A) When I record midi there are instances when I want the played instrument selection during playback to change from one instrument to another depending on the part of music. THe only work around I have used thus far is to separate the midi tracks and then assign the instruments. I have however noted that occassionaly by accident, while recording midi, the track will place a "change instrument" code if i happen to change the instrument during recording. I am however unable to intentionally achieve this effect and cannot (do not have sufficient skills) to debug/ trace in the MIDI file how or what code needs to be set
 
B) The reverse or opposite of the above is I want to record the midi file with no instrument selected- and that only during playback I select on the external keyboard the instrument to be played back with the MIDI file only simply playing the notes
 
Hope my question is clear and someone will point me to the correct solution. Am sure this has been answered somewhere
 
 ===
 
For the record I have Sonar X2a, and have Roland and Yamaha arranger keyboards
 
I am able to successfully record and playback midi using different methods, but just dont think am using the most efficient methods
 
 

Hi tomnk . . . not sure I can help solve all your questions here, but it occurred to me that you can open the event list view of your recorded midi tracks (Views - -> Event List), then you will see any program or bank changes for your midi hardware color coded. You can spot them easily in this view, and delete them and re-record new program changes.
Ideally, there should be an "instrument definition" (Preferences - -> Midi - - -> Instruments) created so you know which program you are calling up, but it sounds like you haven't mapped your hardware synths yet.

What you're talking about are Program Change messages. They consist of a Bank and Patch. When you make a change on the synth's front panel during recording, it can send those messages out as MIDI at the same time that it changes the patch setting internally (sending patch changes isn't always enabled by default), which is why they're showing up in your recording.
 
SONAR can send an initial Bank and Patch message at the start of playback based on settings in the track header (also in the Track Inspector). If you want to insert one later on, you can select the track, set the Now time where you want that change to happen, and go to Insert > Bank/Patch Change in the main menu.
 
Assuming you're using your keyboard synths as sound sources, you'll want to set up Instrument Definitions for them in Preferences > MIDI > Instruments, so that you can select patches by name.
 
All that said, I'm guessing your keyboard synths are both multitimbral, which mean you can have different tracks playing different instruments on each of 16 MIDI channels, and just have one instrument per track with no patch changes.
 
There's a lot more to all of this, of course, (we haven't even touched on soft synths) but that should help get you started. Check the SONAR Reference Guide for more info.

I would have used color coding on text but its not available so am using a bold, italic and large font for clarity (not shouting - do forgive)
 
___brundlefly
What you're talking about are Program Change messages. They consist of a Bank and Patch. When you make a change on the synth's front panel during recording, it can send those messages out as MIDI at the same time that it changes the patch setting internally (sending patch changes isn't always enabled by default), which is why they're showing up in your recording.
 ____
 
Yes that is correct
 
Is there anyway to control or determine when these change messages are set to midi file
 
Right now I have tried to change the program during recording but as I look at the event list as suggested, I do not see the program change. Its all "Note". So this is not turned on, and I'm not sure where to turn it on/off
 
I am guessing that to remove the program change once I get it right, I can just delete the relevant code in the event list
 
 
 
____brundlefly
SONAR can send an initial Bank and Patch message at the start of playback based on settings in the track header (also in the Track Inspector).
___
Am not able to see this in the menu, its probably obvious, just cant wrap my mind around it
 
____brundlefly
If you want to insert one later on, you can select the track, set the Now time where you want that change to happen, and go to Insert > Bank/Patch Change in the main menu.
_____
I have now seen this and yes this works, thanks very much
 
____brundlefly
Assuming you're using your keyboard synths as sound sources, you'll want to set up Instrument Definitions for them in Preferences > MIDI > Instruments, so that you can select patches by name.
_____
correct and I have done this already and can select patches by name. As I said, this works well when I have several tracks each with different instrument
 
 
____brundlefly
All that said, I'm guessing your keyboard synths are both multitimbral, which mean you can have different tracks playing different instruments on each of 16 MIDI channels, and just have one instrument per track with no patch changes.
___
Yes that is correct and works well
 
 
___noynekker
you can open the event list view of your recorded midi tracks (Views - -> Event List), then you will see any program or bank changes for your midi hardware color coded.
___
Yes have opened the list view but in current configuration there are no program/bank changes - evidently not turned on
 
___noynekker
Ideally, there should be an "instrument definition" (Preferences - -> Midi - - -> Instruments) created so you know which program you are calling up, but it sounds like you haven't mapped your hardware synths yet.
___
mostly by accident/ trial and error I was able to import the relevant (ini or was it inf) files and get exact hardware maps for the different instruments presented by the keyboards. In some cases I had to search for different banks/programs but overall Was quite happy with that because, it plays exactly what the keyboards have.
 
 
Thanks very much for your help guys and hope you can answer the remaining questions above. I think I will get it once the fog clears from my mind.

ok
 
Have found where to turn on/off Midi patch changes
 
Just hadn't paid enough attention, sorry about that guys, should have known better
 
 
 

Above the track header pane, there's a list box that let's you select which "widgets" appear in the track header. Set it to "All" and MIDI tracks will  show (Bank and (P)atch fields if you expand the header area enough to reveal all the widgets. Or hit hotkey I to show the Track Inspector, and you'll see (C)hannel (B)ank and (P)atch fields under the FX bin in the lefthand strip.

Brundlefly
Got it, thanks very much. Your post above and the one earlier are exactly what I needed to move me in the right direction. No doubt there is a lot to learn, but I think I've got the basic idea as to where I need to navigate to, its beginning to make a lot of sense and come together for me right now.
 
I think I got what I needed to know to move on with my recording
 
I will of course read up a little more on the MIDI file format and presentation
 
Was trying to mark your post as the answer but not sure how that works