FastBikerBoy

fooman
I want a video with someone editing a real drummer.  Looping is relatively easy regardless of platform.  But editing a sloppy drumline is an art.  One that I had down with layers and take lanes is just not working for me.  The tiniest gap can spell trouble with crossfades, etc.  Very time consuming.

Not sure I'm understanding the problem. The new comping tool adds crossfades automatically that are fully adjustable for position and fade rate with a one click and drag. I edit live drums from time to time but I have never really considered comping together live drums, I tend to quantise one take rather than comping one together from many as unless the drummer is on exactly the same beat for each take they'd still need some sort of timing correction anyway.
 
Having said that I can't think why it wouldn't be possible. I comp together multi mic'd acoustic guitar takes all the time which have similar problems when it comes to timing (or they do when I'm playing). I find the new way miles easier and quicker but as I said I may well be mis-understanding what you mean.

I have a drummer that did three takes, for example.  We like take 1 for section A, take 2 for section B, etc etc.  Comp those today to create a comp track.  Now I need to edit timing cause the drummer isn't very awesome.  I find that when I slice a snare hit that I need to move over by 1/32 note or some other manually-moved timeframe to make it feel right, I now have a gap that makes it very tough to crossfade between lanes.
This is especially for manually-moved clips.   They aren't snapping to anything, so I can't get the crossfade tool/icon to show because there is a miniscule gap between clips in the lanes.
 
Do you have a video editing a drummer without using any sort of snapping.  Using take layers was easy to do this, whereas lanes I can't get it to happen.
 
TBH, I haven't truly given it a go in X3d other than experimenting here and there, and trying things out, because I can't kill time guessing on how to change my workflow in front of paying clients.  I bought some vids so hopefully those shed light on how I 'should' be working.

fooman

FastBikerBoy

fooman
I want a video with someone editing a real drummer.  Looping is relatively easy regardless of platform.  But editing a sloppy drumline is an art.  One that I had down with layers and take lanes is just not working for me.  The tiniest gap can spell trouble with crossfades, etc.  Very time consuming.

Not sure I'm understanding the problem. The new comping tool adds crossfades automatically that are fully adjustable for position and fade rate with a one click and drag. I edit live drums from time to time but I have never really considered comping together live drums, I tend to quantise one take rather than comping one together from many as unless the drummer is on exactly the same beat for each take they'd still need some sort of timing correction anyway.
 
Having said that I can't think why it wouldn't be possible. I comp together multi mic'd acoustic guitar takes all the time which have similar problems when it comes to timing (or they do when I'm playing). I find the new way miles easier and quicker but as I said I may well be mis-understanding what you mean.

I have a drummer that did three takes, for example.  We like take 1 for section A, take 2 for section B, etc etc.  Comp those today to create a comp track.  Now I need to edit timing cause the drummer isn't very awesome.  I find that when I slice a snare hit that I need to move over by 1/32 note or some other manually-moved timeframe to make it feel right, I now have a gap that makes it very tough to crossfade between lanes.
This is especially for manually-moved clips.   They aren't snapping to anything, so I can't get the crossfade tool/icon to show because there is a miniscule gap between clips in the lanes.
 
Do you have a video editing a drummer without using any sort of snapping.  Using take layers was easy to do this, whereas lanes I can't get it to happen.
 
TBH, I haven't truly given it a go in X3d other than experimenting here and there, and trying things out, because I can't kill time guessing on how to change my workflow in front of paying clients.  I bought some vids so hopefully those shed light on how I 'should' be working.

Have you tried using either Audiosnap, Melodyne, or V-Vocal to move the audio within the clip instead of creating a small clip and moving it? I usually find that much faster and fewer problems with blending pre/post sound...

Keni

Audiosnap does edit multi-miced instruments such as drums well (10+ mics with phase correlation).  I have tried to do this before and it never sounds as good as when I manually edit things.  Ever.
 
I'm not saying I want to grid the drums either.  Certain sections or hits may not feel right so I need to split clips and move the hit and then blend the edges of the clip back in with cross-fades.  This is fairly normal, is it not?  I've been doing it this way since Sonar 7 and have saved many subpar drummers.
 
It's easy to say "tell the drummer to practice", but that line doesn't provide an income.  Editing them to sound better than they are does.
 
I literally was just editing a simple guitar part tonight.  I heard a small "pop", so I know I had to go in and crossfade the clips.  I opened up take lanes and was continuously left with a small gap, hence no crossfade tool.
 
Seriously, if anyone can make a video of editing multi-miced drums and tightening up a performance manually I will be your #1 fan.  I will buy said video.  Everything else in X3 is super.

fooman

FastBikerBoy

fooman
I want a video with someone editing a real drummer.  Looping is relatively easy regardless of platform.  But editing a sloppy drumline is an art.  One that I had down with layers and take lanes is just not working for me.  The tiniest gap can spell trouble with crossfades, etc.  Very time consuming.

Not sure I'm understanding the problem. The new comping tool adds crossfades automatically that are fully adjustable for position and fade rate with a one click and drag. I edit live drums from time to time but I have never really considered comping together live drums, I tend to quantise one take rather than comping one together from many as unless the drummer is on exactly the same beat for each take they'd still need some sort of timing correction anyway.
 
Having said that I can't think why it wouldn't be possible. I comp together multi mic'd acoustic guitar takes all the time which have similar problems when it comes to timing (or they do when I'm playing). I find the new way miles easier and quicker but as I said I may well be mis-understanding what you mean.

I have a drummer that did three takes, for example.  We like take 1 for section A, take 2 for section B, etc etc.  Comp those today to create a comp track.  Now I need to edit timing cause the drummer isn't very awesome.  I find that when I slice a snare hit that I need to move over by 1/32 note or some other manually-moved timeframe to make it feel right, I now have a gap that makes it very tough to crossfade between lanes.
This is especially for manually-moved clips.   They aren't snapping to anything, so I can't get the crossfade tool/icon to show because there is a miniscule gap between clips in the lanes.

 
Here's where I get a little confused. If you've comped the takes together and flattened it to a composite take I don't understand why you need to cross fade between lanes as there is only one lane in use albeit over multiple tracks.
 

Do you have a video editing a drummer without using any sort of snapping.  Using take layers was easy to do this, whereas lanes I can't get it to happen.

 
Not currently but i might be able to put something together and stick on youtube if I can find the time. I'm not currently doing much with live drums for various health reasons (not mine). But I've probably got some old projects kicking around that I can use.
 

TBH, I haven't truly given it a go in X3d other than experimenting here and there, and trying things out, because I can't kill time guessing on how to change my workflow in front of paying clients.  I bought some vids so hopefully those shed light on how I 'should' be working.

I can appreciate not wanting to waste time "on the clock". 
 
The "new" comping method has just made the old way (that I used) more automatic. I can't say that there's anything in the "old" lanes that I can't do with the "new" takes but I do appreciate that I have my workflow and you have yours which can make a big difference to how useful the tools are or aren't.
 
If it might help I can easily knock up a screen capture video on how I work with the multi mic'd guitar scenario as I'm doing that all the time. Might be a bit rough and ready as I'm real busy at the moment but I can soon start Camtasia running while I work.
 
My main beef with lanes is the restrictions on size and unlike most I want to be able to make them smaller rather than larger. With multiple takes I start to run out of vertical screen space at about 9 or 10 takes, they then become a pain but the benefits of the newer tools out weighs that drawback (for me)

Long time user and honestly take lanes suck!!!! I am with Keni on this!
It was much better before they implemented the fix for something that worked pretty good IMO
Layers was a better take on the idea!
More usable.
Take Lanes is just more stuff we don't really need.
Why did they fix something that wasn't broke?????
 
 
 

I'm honestly a little confused about what can be done with layers that can't with lanes. I know they are called different names but essentially they are the same thing, just lanes have more control.
 
I did see SteveStrummerUK cite a case with  his workflow and the "Rebuild layers" option (which personally I hated) but I think that has been sorted with X3 and the Flatten Take option.
 
I for one appreciate solo and mute buttons that I can see as well as the notes area. The new comping methods for the way I work are superb.
 
I'm not saying lanes are perfect they are not, especially regarding size limitations but I personally prefer them over layers.

FastBikerBoy
I did see SteveStrummerUK cite a case with  his workflow and the "Rebuild layers" option (which personally I hated) but I think that has been sorted with X3 and the Flatten Take option.

I may be misunderstanding what you're saying, but these seem like two quite different things to me. Rebuild Layers deletes empty layers whereas Flatten Take grabs all the selected clips and makes copies of them in a new lane. I hadn't noticed that it also deletes empty lanes.

I don't want to speak for Steve and I may be completely mis-understanding what he meant but I was referring to specifically that case and not suggesting flatten comp was a replacement for rebuild layers. I should have made that clearer, sorry.
 
I never understood "rebuild layers" and learned to avoid it like the plague, all it ever done for me was re-organise the layers into some seemingly random order. Now at least if I want a take in a specific position I can put it there manually. I could live with a rebuild function if there was some sort of control over it but not in the state it was in.

This is where workflows differ haha
Rebuilding layers is tied to a shortcut and I use it constantly in X1!  I miss it in X2/X3.
 
I wish I knew enough about making videos and had some time to kill to make a video of editing drums and whatnot.  I'd like to know if I'm doing things a lot differently than FBB, who knows enough to get people to buy vids.  I actually bought them last week hoping to shed light on these lanes specifically ;)

FastBikerBoy
I'm honestly a little confused about what can be done with layers that can't with lanes. I know they are called different names but essentially they are the same thing, just lanes have more control.
 
I did see SteveStrummerUK cite a case with  his workflow and the "Rebuild layers" option (which personally I hated) but I think that has been sorted with X3 and the Flatten Take option.
 
I for one appreciate solo and mute buttons that I can see as well as the notes area. The new comping methods for the way I work are superb.
 
I'm not saying lanes are perfect they are not, especially regarding size limitations but I personally prefer them over layers.

Hi Karl...
 
The more I've worked with the new Lanes paradigm, the more I manage to get my work done, but it has complicated the older process far more than it's new features help (my opinion)...
 
As for things you can't do with Lanes that you can with Layers? Here's one that has bugged me (no pun intended) since the appearance of Lanes...
 
I often prefer to see my lanes while seeing all my tracks... the new system of displaying the lanes below the track and at a minimum size far larger than tracks has made this impossible and I must continually re-size and/or scroll screen to see what I want...
 
With Layers, all layers were visible within the track even when it's space was tiny and I could see far more tracks on screen at one time while seeing the displayed Layers...
 
Keni