• SONAR
  • vst's lagg after recording 3 tracks getting chopping echo??? (p.2)
2014/01/01 23:08:00
Steev
Yep, now that should do the job nicely. I never used an Alesis audio interface but they made some decent synths and FX units. Insert jack is a nice plus and it's full 48 v phantom power and standard MIDI ports gives you support for a full range of mikes and hardware synths and FX as well.
2014/01/02 08:54:44
gcolbert
I regularly use an IO|2 Express (I have other interfaces as well), and I think that it is about the best price/performance option around.  I believe that it compares favorably with equipment costing twice as much.  No ASIO support, and I find that it works best using WDM/KS on most of my computers.
 
Glen
2014/01/02 08:57:27
Dan Gonzalez [Cakewalk]
jbl420
what about this??? http://www.bestbuy.com/si...face&cp=3&lp=8

 
This article may be helpful:
How to choose the right audio interface
2014/01/02 09:27:28
gcolbert
Steev
Yes it does have a USB 2 audio interface but that just connects the mixer's audio input it to the computer's internal sound card or most likely in this case an integrated sound chip on the motherboard.
 

Steev - you are babbling here.  You are simply wrong here.  It does have a complete Audio Interface, but possibly not the best.
Steev
I actually use a MUCH older and outdated M-Audio MobilePre USB2 interface that makes it possible to workably run about 8 audio tracks with an instance of Dimension Pro and Rapture each running in SONAR X2 Producer smoothly with M-A's ASIO DRIVERS @ 5.6 ms latency on a Compaq Presario consumer mid-grade Laptop with Win 7 64x and 8 gigs of RAM.
 Try running X2 without the MobilePre on the same project on the same machine running MME drivers latency shoots up off the charts so bad that once I hit play it becomes completely unstable making it utterly unusable pile of lagging, choppy, echoing box of junk.
 

More outdated and no longer accurate information.  This might be true for your outdated M-Audio MobilePre, but it is not a general truth.  Further more, there are some motherboard/chipset/OS combinations where the MME drivers are the right answer.
Steev
And BTW, with all due respect, ASIO drivers most certainly DO prevent STDs! Now I'm not talking those free one size fits all ASIO drivers that allegedly are supposed to turn your little built in sound chip into a fire breathing dragon. I'm talking about replacing that little sound chip with a high quality soundcard with high quality tested and refined ASIO drivers written specifically for it. No matter what brand A/I you choose use that brands specific drivers.

Once again, you are making statements based on outdated information assuming antiquated hardware.  ASIO was written to bailing wire and bubble gum around problems with Windows 2000/XP audio issues.  Properly written WDM/KS drivers can not only outperform ASIO, but can do it without requiring strange 'one driver only' constraints.  Your statements may have been true ten years ago, but the times they are a changin' 
2014/01/02 14:21:29
Steev
I am babbling Glen? Hmm.. "So ASIO was written to bailing wire and bubble gum around problems with Windows 2000/XP audio issues?" 
 I wonder why Focusrite included their highly acclaimed and recommended ASIO drivers which are capable of running @ 2ms and are in fact automatically set to run with SONAR Producer X3d's wave profiler @ 2.4ms latency with my brand new Scarlett 18i20? I got this piece for my big boy workstation, not the laptop.
 And BTW the M-Audio MobilePre maybe old, but it's running X2 smoothly with the latest drivers for Windows 7 x64 @ 5.6ms latency.
 When I switch over to WDM/KS drivers I have to crank latency up 24.8ms for stable and smooth which isn't too bad I guess, but it's still 4x higher meaning it ain't even close.
 I do remember a time when the WDM/kernel streamers worked better on some 32 bit computers than early versions of ASIO, but I thought those days were long gone and over with XP.
 
 And that little Pyle mixer does not have any A/D converters so it doesn't need any mme, wasapi, WDM/KS, or ASIO drivers, because only interfaces with the computer's EXISTING sound chip's analog input thru USB. AND 'one driver only' constraints usually only exist with those little noisy built in onboard sound chips.
 
 I'm not accustomed to purchasing consumer grade or budget gear, but I know there is some really good stuff that is inexpensive. However I most certainly wouldn't recommend buying anything that doesn't support ASIO drivers for working with and running VSTi and DXi softsynths. I truly believe that would be a waist of money.
 
OK babble is over.. I think we should ALL take the advice Dan Gonzales and read the article.
 
Thanks Dan, and Happy New Years to ALL
2014/01/02 16:49:51
gcolbert
Steev
 I wonder why Focusrite included their highly acclaimed and recommended ASIO drivers which are capable of running @ 2ms and are in fact automatically set to run with SONAR Producer X3d's wave profiler @ 2.4ms latency 

Yes, you are babbling Steev.  The original poster came on the forum with a problem that would possibly be resolved by an upgrade to his hardware collection.  He asked about a specific piece of hardware.  While others suggested that Jay should look at a couple of higher end solutions, your post provided totally incorrect information related to the Pyle mixer.  Do you have or have you ever used one of these?  What qualification do you have to talk to this piece of equipment?
 
Spewing marketing verbiage like 'highly acclaimed, 'cleaner natural sounding audio,' and apples to oranges numeric comparisons should make any reader question your objectivity in this area.
 
Steev
 And that little Pyle mixer does not have any A/D converters so it doesn't need any mme, wasapi, WDM/KS, or ASIO drivers, because only interfaces with the computer's EXISTING sound chip's analog input thru USB. AND 'one driver only' constraints usually only exist with those little noisy built in onboard sound chips.
 

You clearly don't know what you are talking about here and are just wrong. 
Steev
I most certainly wouldn't recommend buying anything that doesn't support ASIO drivers for working with and running VSTi and DXi softsynths. I truly believe that would be a waist of money.

Jay's computer is more than up to the task of running VSTi and DXi soft synths.  It is possible that his issues could be addressed by simply freezing a couple of tracks.  It is entirely possible that this isn't even an Audio Interface problem but just a simple case of the summed output driving his current sound card to 0Db. 
 
Throwing out bad information and marketing tripe does not help him with his original questions.
 
Glen
 


 
2014/01/02 17:09:28
Splat
Well I wouldn't touch a card an interface without ASIO drivers nowadays unless I had to, although I'm sure WDM and other drivers given the right conditions should work well enough. There's an element of truth when it comes to using the right driver though, for the first 6 months or so the drivers that came with the Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 stank, then one day they turned into what I regard as the Roll Royce of all ASIO drivers (from 2.4 and above), and they just keep getting better.
2014/01/02 19:24:15
Steev
Dan Gonzalez [Cakewalk]
jbl420
what about this??? http://www.bestbuy.com/si...face&cp=3&lp=8

 
This article may be helpful:
How to choose the right audio interface




Very good article on choosing audio interfaces. I strongly advise reading the whole thing, but point #9 seems to be specifically pertinent to this tread.
Geese Glen, I’m thinking I haven’t come across such an assumptive and opinionated troll like you in quite some time? Are you practicing to become a night club comedian or something? Because you are just coming off as being rude, nasty, and bitter about something. Is it because I contradicted you? Sorry dude, but I believe that YOU ARE WRONG, and pitching a hissy fit and pointing a finger at me with assumptive and opinionated troll like accusations is not going to solve anyone's problems, but only going to make things worse.
You need to at least come up with some proof that I’m wrong. Let us all know how you conclude WDM/KS drivers are superior to ASIO. I would surely like to know, and I’ll bet so would the design engineers at Focusrite would as well.
 Or how about something simple like what type of drivers does the Pyle mixer support, what’s it’s lowest latency setting, or what sample rates does it record at? Did YOU ever use one of the Pyle mixers as an audio interface?
Or are you just blowing smoke up our arses here thinking it’s my turn to be your whipping post? HEE, HEE, HEE.. I doubt that's gonna work out very well for you or anyone else here, buddy..
 
OK, I'm going to go back working on my project now and put my new Scarlett 18i20 thru the paces. Good night Glenn, don't wait up for me, I'll read ya back in the morning.
That's a bummer about waiting for Safire Pro 40 drivers to come of age, Alex, I know what that feels like all to well. I went thru the same thing with my Delta 1010 PCI card when I first took that step into the x64 world of computing. It took M-Audio a couple of try's to get it right, and they really stripped down the 1010's control panel.
  I guess I was lucky with the Focusrite purchase as the Scarlett was out for some time as the ASIO drivers seemed to be Rolls Royce straight off. I'm LOV'in IT!
2014/01/02 20:29:00
gcolbert
Steev
Very good article on choosing audio interfaces. I strongly advise reading the whole thing, but point #9 seems to be specifically pertinent to this tread.

I could be mistaken, but I believe it was Dan (the author of the mentioned article) who helped me through a technical issue with one particular interface where WDM/KS proved to be the best performance solution.  He went so far as to actually buy an interface and work through the issues with me.  He provides some very sage advice, but nowhere does he imply that ASIO is the best solution.  There are, in fact, situations where Cakewalk even recommends using (or at least trying) MME.  Fact is that the best driver mode depends on the hardware and the quality of the driver - not the driver mode.  Sometimes (most often) it is ASIO, Sometimes it isn't. 
 
The companies that write DAWs work hard to ensure that their software talks well with ASIO drivers because it has become the generally accepted standard - not because it is in any way better.  What is best is a function of what computer and hardware you are using and the quality of the drivers.
 
Steev
Geese Glen, I’m thinking I haven’t come across such an assumptive and opinionated troll like you in quite some time? Are you practicing to become a night club comedian or something? Because you are just coming off as being rude, nasty, and bitter about something. Is it because I contradicted you? Sorry dude, but I believe that YOU ARE WRONG, and pitching a hissy fit and pointing a finger at me with assumptive and opinionated troll like accusations is not going to solve anyone's problems, but only going to make things worse.

I may be coming across as badly as you say, but what you were posting was uninformed and blatantly incorrect.  Guys who come onto the forum and make statements about equipment that they have never used (like your Pyle information) do nothing to help new people learn the process or make knowledgeable equipment decisions.  You should edit your posts and remove the absurd statements that you made.
 
Steev
You need to at least come up with some proof that I’m wrong. Let us all know how you conclude WDM/KS drivers are superior to ASIO. I would surely like to know, and I’ll bet so would the design engineers at Focusrite would as well.

Have you ever written a hardware driver?  I have.  Let me assure you that while ASIO has specific performance advantages in specific situations that it is not in any way superior to other approaches beyond its general acceptance.  Additionally, it is very limiting in what it can do, particularly as related to integrating with other devices.  Imagine a MIDI driver that would only allow you to connect one device at a time to the DAW.  Do you want to use your keyboard or your control surface today?  You don't seem to have an issue with audio devices that are this limited.
 
Steev
Or how about something simple like what type of drivers does the Pyle mixer support, what’s it’s lowest latency setting, or what sample rates does it record at? Did YOU ever use one of the Pyle mixers as an audio interface?

Unlike you, I have used a Pyle mixer with Sonar (as well as similar devices from Alesis, Peavey, and Behringer.  So long as you can live within the constraints of 16bit 44.1K and two tracks of I/o, channel cross talk, and a relatively high noise level they are workable.  Your latency remark here leads me to question if you actually understand where latency comes from beyond what some salesman has told you.
 
Steev
Or are you just blowing smoke up our arses here thinking it’s my turn to be your whipping post? HEE, HEE, HEE.. I doubt that's gonna work out very well for you or anyone else here, buddy..

What got my dander up in this thread was your stupid statements about the Pyle interface and how you still needed to use the sound card.  Obviously you were shooting off about something you had absolutely no knowledge and none of this did a damned thing to help Jay with his problem.
Glen
2014/01/02 21:30:25
jbl420
yes g that's what I was thinking it clearly says usb audio interface aswell as mixer and says it is compatable with most professional studio software and does have phantom power which im pretty sure my onboard sound chip doesn't have phantom power.
 
so I was figuring the pyle would be an improvement . so steev why would a product mention it could work with most major studio workstations.
 
quote "This device is perfect for the bedroom musician looking to get their songs on the computer. It’s compatible with virtually all recording software on both Mac and Windows"
 
  • Combo Input Connector Female/XLR And ¼ '' Phone Jack For MIC/Line Inputs.
  • Line 3/2 Stereo Line Inputs RCA Plugs,To Connect Cd, Mp3 Tape Deck, Players.
  • Main Out RCA Plugs To Connect The Mixer, Receiver Or Amplifier.
  • Signal Output Thru The Headphones
  • Line/INSTR SW Input Select Switch Set
  • Line 2/3 Level This Control Adjusts The Volume Of Signal Input Of Line 2/3.
  • Peak Led It Lights Up Went The Input Signal Of Ch1 Is Too High.
  • Ch 1 Gain This Control Adjust The Volume Of Signal Input Of Ch1.
  • Phantom Power Supply On The XLR Connector Of Ch1.
  • Phantom Led Indicates That Phantom Power Is On.
  • USB Audio Interface
  • Master Lets You Control Mixer's Overall Volume Level
  • Clip Led Lights Up Went The Main Output Signal Is Too High
  • Monitor To Control Volume Output Of The Monitor Jack.
  • Power Led Indicates That The Unit Is In On Position.
 
While this doesn't say it has drivers there must be something u have to install cuz I mean how would the computer see/use it            
 
While I will agree that its not the rolls Royce of interfaces it does also mention Ultra-Low Noise Design With High Headroom and it is a 5ch mixer.
 
Which is also what I was trying to figure out what driver mode is best is asio the best for most devices including my onboard sound card???.
 
Also what I have done is changed my driver mode I somehow was able to change my driver mode from mme32 to wdm which dident seem to work before I would get a message saying viahd audio1 or something not connected after trying another mode like wdm or asio and I wouldent get no sound somehow I changed the driver mode last night and checked off one of the outputs in preferences that it showed something like viahd1/2 and somehow its working now in wdm mode.
 
but i noticed the response of the controller pads sorta trailing slow response so i had to bring the slider back to the left one notch from where the wave profiler set it and the response got better so i seemed. I recorded 3 or 4 tracks cloned the drums and i dident notice any hiccups.
 
Maybe i should try seeing if the asio driver works i might not have a problem might not need to buy anything. I realize i wont be able to use midi devices but they sell usb midi keyboards so im not really seeing the use of midi ports and as for recording vocals i use a high z low z cable on an audio technica condenser mic going to quarter inch in soundcard ya i might not have phantom power but i don't really even understand what that does so i wouldent know the advantages .
 
also nothing says what bit rate the pyle handles and most sites you share music on don't allow anything but mp3 and you cant export anything as an mp3 above 16 bit anyways so the fact is who would ever get here anything of higher quality im talking the average user
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