Thanks Jonathan - that's really nice of you ;).
 
(Isn't the five minutes up yet?)

CakeAlexS
Thanks Jonathan - that's really nice of you ;).

Alex, I've tried being nice, and have been met with sarcasm and sophistry.
 
When recommending  Sonar to students (or colleagues), I have always "pushed" this forum as one of it's major selling points.
 
Since your one man campaign, I would be embarrassed to do so.
 
I don't know what to say.

Jonathan - you just aren't reading what I'm writing - I'm sorry.

I clarified twice what you misunderstood earlier. You still didn't take the opportunity to re-read what I said and took completely the wrong end of the stick thinking everything was aimed towards you.. I even tried apologising.
 
That last comment clearly was aimed against me, so there you have it, that last comment was a DIRECT comment towards you....  And then you throw a pretty nasty generalistic comment afterwards. So you got what you wanted, a reaction...
 
Maybe it's a cultural issue.
 
 
Anyways whatever... I see what you want I haven't got the extra 5 pounds..

CakeAlexS
Jonathan - you just aren't reading what I'm writing - I'm sorry.

I clarified twice what you misunderstood earlier. You still didn't take the opportunity to re-read what I said and took completely the wrong end of the stick thinking everything was aimed towards you.. I even tried apologising.
 
That last comment clearly was aimed against me, so there you have it, that last comment was a DIRECT comment towards you....  And then you throw a pretty nasty generalistic comment afterwards. So you got what you wanted, a reaction...
 
Maybe it's a cultural issue.
 
 
Anyways whatever... I see what you want I haven't got the extra 5 pounds..

This is my last comment on this thread.
 
You again play these games.  Sophistry.
 
I'm not sure about "Cultural Issues".  I may live in Lincolnshire, but spent most of my working life in London, and was born/brought up in the Surrey/Hants area.  Perhaps it is cultural..
 
I "Took the opportunity" re-read "What I said (sic) ", and saw your apology for what it was.
 
I think my comments were pretty clear, and showed no generalisations at all.
 
I think I have probably spoken enough on this, and further comments will be sent via PM, as perhaps they should have been in the first place.
 
My apologies.
 
Jonathan

"You again play these games.  Sophistry."
 
OK you are getting into the realm of the paranoid... backing off now!!!

CakeAlexS
Well,,,,
 
Insert menu is Tracks and Buses
 
Project is Tempos/measures/meters and markers.
 
Proposal:

Rename Insert menu to "Tracks and Buses" to avoid confusion.
 
Move
 
Insert Meter/Key Change
Insert Tempo Change
Insert Series of Tempos
Insert Time measures
Insert Marker
 
To a new menu, don't know what that would be called.
Situation at present having them under project is not optimal. Everything in theory could be under project. My view of Project is that this should be for one off project operations, not things that get regularly updated.
 

I couldn't agree more.
 
I finalise my arrangements in SONAR, and as part of the process I'm always adding and removing measures here and there.
 
Since X1 arrived, and right up until this very day, I still hit Insert out of habit instead of Project when I want to add in a few bars.
 
I take into account the subtle differences between the menus, and maybe another solution would be to create a new 'Insert' button in the Track View pane itself:
 

 
 

I also agree that these two menu categories are confusing and should be cleaned up. Not a show stopper but should be more intuitive..

@Steve Totally brilliant idea...
 
You know I totally forgot about those menus below... But they change depending on the View being displayed, i.e. maximising the console.
 
... and if you open the console and click on Tracks, what do you get....
Insert Audio Track
Insert MIDI Track
 
Which is also on the Insert main menu ...
 
My mind now is totally blown!!!!
 
I could probably go through all this and have a go at optimizing this menu structure, but it probably would take a day so I won't :) Anyway this needs to be turned upside down on it's head in my view.. UI simplicity is very important... ask Apple (I hate myself for saying that)...

SteveStrummerUK
maybe another solution would be to create a new 'Insert' button in the Track View pane itself:
 

 
'fraid I'm not down with that one, either. All those menu headings are objects, and the relevant actions related to each object are in the menus - like context menus. Having an "Insert" menu there would reverse that relationship, and wouldn't be in keeping with the logic of rest of the menu bar.

The separation of these things makes sense to me. The stuff under Insert is kind of like tangible objects - synths and tracks and what have you. The stuff under Project is stuff that relates to the composition you're working on. It's not so much that they should be on the same menu, I don't think. More that "Project" is an unclear term for the second category.