• SONAR
  • Help Identifying this Sound Effect (p.2)
2018/01/08 13:45:57
.
Except for the fact that he used Laney amps for the recording. He has and does use Laney amps more often than not, and certainly practically always live.
 
– Laney LA 100 BL
Known among some as pre-Supergroup. Tony used it on Black Sabbath and Paranoid albums.
 
 
What amps were you using in the early days of Sabbath, around the first album 'Black Sabbath'?
"I think I was using Marshall early on, and then Laney on the first album, but when we first wrote ['Black Sabbath'] songs I was using a Marshall 50-watt. I switched to Laney because they started up around the same time as us and they're a Birmingham company. To be honest, they offered to give us all this gear when nobody else did. What do you say to that? 'OK!' So I used them."
 
https://www.groundguitar.com/tony-iommis-guitars-and-gear/
 
http://www.musicradar.com...d-early-sabbath-310167
 
 
 
2018/01/08 17:21:28
chuckebaby
Matron Landslide
Except for the fact that he used Laney amps for the recording.




Obviously not for the album the OP is asking about.
The link in the OP is a song from the album "Heaven and hell".
 
Marshall Super Lead 1959
This amp was modified by John “Dawk” Stillwell, who designed a new circuit for it that included an extra tube and a master gain control. The amp was used on Heaven and Hell and Mob Rules albums""
2018/01/08 21:40:14
SonicExplorer
Thanks for replies so far.
 
I swear to you guys, there is some sort of special sauce added on the tracks.  It took me years for my ears to finally hear it, but it is there.  It is not just the amp, nor mic related (unless a ribbon mic is being shredded).  The guitar track stems I obtained from Dio's Rainbow in the Dark have this same thing happening, that's when I noticed something unique is definitely going on.  Harder to hear in the actual mix but the same thing is happening on the tracks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcWKZTI9OC4
 
Some kind of high-frequency ear-pleasing harmonic content is being added or accentuated somehow.
 
2018/01/09 14:44:19
chuckebaby
After the breakdown on Neon knights I do hear (I believe) it sounds like a keyboard.
But its not at 1:50 its almost 2:00.
 
If you want to hear some great tones, check out this guy on You tube.
He is one/if not my favorite tubers.
 

 
I personally love SG and Les Paul's (the older ones). But my personal favorite guitar is my 2003 MIA Fender Strat with one Humbucker in the bridge. I don't like the twang of the Strats (The 3 single coils) So I pulled those out and put in a custom made Seymour Duncan from the 80's.
 
It just takes a while to find the right combination of Guitar/Amp. For me it was the Strat and a modded JCA Jet City 20.
I have Marshalls, Vox, Peavey 6505 and a slew of other amps including multiple cabinets with over 20 different speakers I pop in out of the cabs. Right now my fav is the Soldano 2x12 with a Vintage 30 and a Creamback.
But the JCA 20 with the Friedman mod just breaks up fast at lower volumes.
2018/01/09 20:25:06
35mm
There's a swooshing phaser on the guitars just before the solo starts. Is that what you mean?
2018/01/10 00:05:29
Rbh
Cactus Music
It could be a noise reduction artifact which was the Bane of tape based recording in those day's. 
Especially this happened in the upper frequencies. To mask the tape hiss Dobly or DBX, as example, would mess around with processing the upper frequency where the hiss was. I totally forget how it works because there's no point in remembering anymore.   Go read up on Tape hiss and noise reduction..  It will start all of us old goons off yelling at you for wanting to bring back what we don't miss about using tape :) 
Like the guy who wanted to figure out how to add record scratching to his recording,,,, geeeze///


You may onto something here - Dolby / DBX noise reduction circuits did a exaggerated high frequency emphasis when encoding and a reversed DE-emphasis upon decoding. There were scenarios where these could be switched on and off or bypassed. I remember wishing I could keep the emphasis on occasion but just dial it back a bit.
2018/01/10 00:11:43
SonicExplorer
35mm
There's a swooshing phaser on the guitars just before the solo starts. Is that what you mean?



Yes, that part, not the keyboards afterwards.  The gap where the drums stop.  It is an amazing effect that adds/accentuates harmonic distortion to the guitar tracks, it tricks the ears into thinking it is part of the guitar tone.  It is on the entire track, and many other guitar tracks on some early classic 80's stuff.  Martin Birch used this a lot.
 
I've got to figure out what it is.....it's what I've been missing.  You don't get that from a mic or speaker or amp.  It's something happening after the guitar chain, either during recording or mixing (probably the latter unless it is by chance attributed to noise reduction).
2018/01/10 01:17:16
35mm
Hmmm, you don't mean the doubling sound? Kind of chorusy? There is a second guitar there. It's double tracked but has a different sound and is lower in the mix and panned about 50% left. Apart from that, there's a bit of phaser and the treble has been boosted on the saturating valves/tubes and there's a short reverb, maybe amp room ambiance. Then when the solo comes in there's some Hammond with it. I'm not hearing anything more special than that.
2018/01/10 04:33:25
bitflipper
There are clearly two guitars there. When it's done well you won't hear two distinct tracks, just one thick sound. Gilmore was especially adept at it, so good that you're rarely aware that nearly all Pink Floyd guitar solos were double-tracked. Black Sabbath never had that level of precision, so I think that's primarily what you're hearing: the chorusing of two distorted guitars playing in imperfect unison. However, I believe there is also a flanger happening in there; my guess would be an Electric Mistress.
2018/01/10 05:44:40
SonicExplorer
It's two tracks with typical stereo widening during mix.  But that has nothing to do with the effect I'm referring to.  Listen very closely, it tricks the ears and is very easy to miss.  It requires decent monitors with good top end. There is something being applied that has nothing to do with the native signal coming into the board.   There's an entire frequency/harmonic spectrum happening in the upper layers that is not coming from a guitar amp or typical effect.  
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