• SONAR
  • Tape Sim Uses (p.2)
2013/12/05 21:14:57
bitflipper
I dunno. I like snares that crack. Tape sims make them sound like oatmeal boxes with wax paper. 
2013/12/05 21:41:54
Jeff Evans
I dunno. I like snares that crack. Tape sims make them sound like oatmeal boxes with wax paper.... +1 Dave. I agree. How about the concept that in fact analog tape is inferior to digital especially in the drums area. But I guess sometimes it can be just the right thing to use.
 
It is unwise to put it on every buss as well. Then you could be mushing up your entire mix. Why do that! Try it on just a few spots here and there in your mix, keep other bits transient and crisp and snappy. As a drummer playing live in front of one the finest drum kits in the world for over 40 years (Sonor of course) I always found tape could never quite make it in terms of its sound. Digital has got it right seriously though. (Danny also agrees with me on this very much so BTW) What tape does to drums is soften the transient leading edges, adds bottom end to the sound and a bit of high end head bump. (and hiss, oh wonderful) Ok if you want all that but you have to ask yourself, do I really want that?
 
What is so great about our current ITB mixing is that we can put some parts of the mix through analog processes and other parts not. In the all analog world that is not possible.
 
Try out this for example. Harrison Mixbus has got one of the nicest saturation processes around. The other day I was mastering a hip hop track and I just did not like how it sounded or what the saturation was doing. Even turned fully off. I did the mastering in Studio One instead just to check it and boom, it was super clean and perfect. Now for the last dozen or more mastering jobs Harrison has been the better option but not in this case, it was worse.
 
If you WANT to make things sound a bit more retro or softer tape wise or saturated then go for it for sure but if you don't, then it may not be a good thing to use at all. On crunchy guitars yes it might be perfect. On a distorted organ patch perhaps too. But maybe not on everything. I can think of many things that would not benefit.
 
I am old, I have owned and used some of the finest tape recorders the world has ever seen. Don't miss any of it now though, would not go back for quids! So used to digital they sound noisy, sloppy, slow transient front edges, they mess with the EQ you name it. Distortion beyond belief, wow and flutter, great!
 
EDIT: BUT looking at the OP. Looks like you are into Jazz bass and electric at that. Bass could really sound nice with modest amounts of tape sim. No transients as such like drums to ruin and the bass boost down low could well be in your favour too so yes try it on some of your bass tracks first and start experimenting there.
 
2013/12/05 21:48:36
Splat
Having worked with tape machines in the past (1/4" to 2"), I can unequivocally say wanting to emulate a tape machine is last on my list. For me that's like sticking music through FM radio for that "FM Radio sound" - why would you want to do that? I mean heck who wants tape hiss for instance? People were fighting to get rid of it at the time.
 
"Warmth" can be obtained by other methods.
 
Having said that I'm gonna give it a try to see what the supposed fuss is about as the overloud tape emulation looks interesting.
2013/12/06 09:02:28
Sidroe
There is a lot to be said about the old days of tape. I grew up in a world of analog tape machines. Showing my age here. I have had the pleasure of working under a lot of well known producers and I think most of them had a hard time embracing digital recording. At the same time you have to make the argument here that I have heard over and over and over from guitar players about amp sims. DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT A VIRTUAL WORLD DIGITAL PLUGIN SOUNDS AS GOOD AS THE REAL THING? These plugs are never gonna truly replicate the REAL sound. They just sound DIFFERENT! Granted some of them are very well done. From my experience, I am thankful to have these tools at hand but when it comes to the memories of fighting with an analog tape machine to keep the recording from being noisy and grainy I am glad those days are GONE!
If you younger guys had to work under the gun with a noisy desk recording to a noisy tape machine onto a noisy tape, get 3/4s of the way thru an album only to have the tape break, at sometimes over 200 dollars a reel--------SHEESH! 
2013/12/06 10:23:57
bitflipper
Yeh, you tell 'em, Sidroe. Them whippersnappers have no idea how good they've got it. Hey! You kids get off my lawn!
 
Seriously, we need to embrace the strengths of digital audio and stop trying to mimic the shortcomings of analog gear and magnetic tape. I'm as nostalgic as the next guy when it comes to classic rock, but by any objective measure the recordings of the late 90's are superior to stuff done in the 60's or 70's. Sure, it all went to sh*t in the mid-2000's, but we still have those prior 1.5 decades to use as a reference.
2013/12/06 11:09:14
CTStump
Well, being old school myself, I'll give it a go....
 
 Almost any thing can benefit with some added even harmonics and compression distortion that analog tape is known for, certain instruments more than others with bass and percussive instruments benefiting the most. Let's face it...we love distortion.
 
 Just NOT with analog tape being the medium used(exit wow and flutter). The sterility of the digital medium almost requires that sometimes do to perceived loss of the "it" factor that our human ears are use to hearing so I think these plugins preform a valuable purpose when used correctly. Pshycoacoustic enhancement was relevant even in the analog era, I remember when the BBE exiciter was introduced the first time I used it live for a sound gig I did and was amazed by the perceived clarity even though it was adding distortion to the mix which would seem the opposite goal to satisfactory sound engineering. It's all subjective I guess.
 
I think it's great that these tools are available to use when necessary, being an oldster myself.
2013/12/06 12:18:10
sven450
Just want to make clear:  personally I do not use a tape sim to "be retro" or "make it sound old school" or try to "emulate" anything else (despite the fact that is an emulation!)  I have just messed with it on drums, and it often sounds better.  Its almost like a channel strip: maybe it is the EQ being added, or the light saturation, or the faux tape compression.  Not sure.  But if it sounds better, well....
2013/12/06 13:55:51
Beepster
Just want to thank some of the big hitters in here for adding their thoughts about tape sims and what they do and do not work for. I would have wasted a lot of time and probably ruined more of my stuff without this advice.
 
I cannot imagine what I would do without this forum.
 
Stay awesome.
2013/12/06 15:11:07
Sidroe
Any tool that helps you get the desired end is well worth it. I just think it's hilarious that we are deep in to a discussion about a virtual digital plugin manufactured in the depths of a computer chip is supposed to manufacture the sound of a XX,000 dollar analog tape machine with tons of circuitry, maybe tubes, and a couple of hundred dollars reel of tape that wows and flutters like crazy.
I'm not saying to or not to use it. It just seems like yesterday we were all buying computers and software so we didn't have to deal with all the analog issues that we NOW are trying to simulate! 
Bottom line, it is still about making good quality recordings no matter how you got that particular sound.
2013/12/06 15:13:09
Sidroe
BTW, CTStump. I still have my BBE box from the old days. It hasn't been turned on for years. Ah, the memories!
 
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