An easy way to crash Sonar is to to click, drag and drop an fx from one fx-bin to another while the poject is playing. This is true for all the Sonar versions I have used. Recently it happened while I did this with Altiverb (32 bit) in Sonar X3c. I just can't remember that this is not not the way to do it! .-(

Ryan Munnis [Cakewalk]

SilkTone, I explained to you in depth multiple times why that report was closed. Continuously calling me out with false information and spreading rumors is just ridiculous. You're ignoring everything I've explained to you in depth. You're misquoting myself and other Cakewalk staff. I personally logged your new CWBRN with internal details yesterday. You are quite literally arguing with the person trying to help you here.
 
Please stop spreading false information.

How does closing two bug reports for a bugs that clearly have not been fixed, and then calling you out on that amount to "misinformation"? Or rumors? What rumors? That you closed the reports erroneously? Are you saying those two bugs have been fixed? You might not like it but CWBRN-1336 contains details you won't find in any other report (multiple ways to reproduce the issue, each with very detailed steps, source code for a plugin to reproduce the issue, a Sonar project, screenshots, analysis from within the debugger showing how MIDI notes get mangled), yet you went ahead and conveniently swept it under the rug.
 
I appreciate any help you want to provide, but the one thing I learned over the last 5 years regarding this specific bug is that CW would rather triage it into oblivion at each release and instead fix a bunch of fuzzy feel-good bugs. I get the feeling no-one at CW can fix this bug.

Please give me your hand and pull me out of the raging river, while I bite you and yell at you.
 
That'll work.
 
(no particularly accurate summation intended in the above)
 
Seems like Ryan is trying to sort through things, and my observations on his participation in this forum are that he puts a good deal of effort into getting things straightened out.
 
I am not trying to defend anyone, and not trying to discount your frustration with your situation, or the time involved.  I am merely indicating that Ryan seems to be actively working on it, and that he has a good track in here for helping get things as figured out as possible. 
 
Perhaps this will get resolved for you - hope so anyway.
 
Bob Bone

robert_e_bone
Please give me your hand and pull me out of the raging river, while I bite you and yell at you.
 
That'll work.
 
(no particularly accurate summation intended in the above)
 
Seems like Ryan is trying to sort through things, and my observations on his participation in this forum are that he puts a good deal of effort into getting things straightened out.
 
I am not trying to defend anyone, and not trying to discount your frustration with your situation, or the time involved.  I am merely indicating that Ryan seems to be actively working on it, and that he has a good track in here for helping get things as figured out as possible. 
 
Perhaps this will get resolved for you - hope so anyway.
 
Bob Bone

Robert, you are right that Ryan is trying to help. I'm still a bit ticked off that he closed the problem reports that I spend a huge amount of time documenting, while those issues have not been fixed (I'm not expecting a medal for my efforts here, but at the same time it feels like CW doesn't even want to acknowledge that I gave them a huge amount of information in an effort to help them improve Sonar for everyone).
 
So it looks like the expectation here is that we should now re-submit new reports for this issue. That will help, however in no way will I waste my time like that again seeing as to date none of it resulted in us being one step closer to a resolution. I know everyone's workflow is different, but this bug is preventing me from using Sonar altogether. I've tried every work-around imaginable to mankind only to finally realize there is no real workaround, and I was forced to move to another DAW.
 

lawp
so have the individual bugs documented on his web page been re-submitted as individual cases/reports by anyone? that would seem to be the best way forward?

 
I did end up re-submitting them as CWBRN-22141 and CWBRN-22142 (this is what Ryan was referring to). But by no means did I enter nearly as much detail as there was in CWBRN-1336. Just. Not. Going. To. Do. That. I filed those so that I can be notified the next time CW believes they have fixed the issues.
 
If it wasn't for this issue I'd use Sonar instead, so I'd really like to know when these issues are truly resolved. I've been using Twelve Tone/CW products for over 20 years now (before it even had audio tracks), so I would like to continue using it if possible since I'm more familiar with it.

SilkTone

Ryan Munnis [Cakewalk]

SilkTone, I explained to you in depth multiple times why that report was closed. Continuously calling me out with false information and spreading rumors is just ridiculous. You're ignoring everything I've explained to you in depth. You're misquoting myself and other Cakewalk staff. I personally logged your new CWBRN with internal details yesterday. You are quite literally arguing with the person trying to help you here.
 
Please stop spreading false information.

How does closing two bug reports for a bugs that clearly have not been fixed, and then calling you out on that amount to "misinformation"? Or rumors? What rumors? That you closed the reports erroneously? Are you saying those two bugs have been fixed? You might not like it but CWBRN-1336 contains details you won't find in any other report (multiple ways to reproduce the issue, each with very detailed steps, source code for a plugin to reproduce the issue, a Sonar project, screenshots, analysis from within the debugger showing how MIDI notes get mangled), yet you went ahead and conveniently swept it under the rug.
 
I appreciate any help you want to provide, but the one thing I learned over the last 5 years regarding this specific bug is that CW would rather triage it into oblivion at each release and instead fix a bunch of fuzzy feel-good bugs. I get the feeling no-one at CW can fix this bug.

I didn't sweep anything under the rug. This is what I mean by rumors. I directly explained, in depth, how and why things went through the way they did. This is here: http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/2938238
 
I don't feel it's necessary to re-explain everything I already explained in that post. You seem to have a personal vendetta against me and my attempts to clear things up here. In your new CWBRN report you even stated that I erroneously closed out the case as if I didn't understand, but that is not what happened. Again, this is explained to you already in my post. There is a lot of things being based off hearsay here and you stated you don't own the product.
 
If your goal here in the forum is to continually follow up to threads stating that myself and other Cakewalk staff aren't doing anything to help than you couldn't be any further from the truth. You're manipulating things (such as report counts) to state that we're not being helpful. If that is your goal here, then it is not welcome. If the goal is getting the issue resolved, then I've already stated multiple times how that can be done and told you how I've escalated your issue internally to our developers. I also assigned the case you entered yesterday to the ongoing report we have internally on this issue. Even without the CWBRN, our internal reports are open and being worked on. The CWBRN is meant as a way for us to notify you. I discussed in my post at length where I feel we did a poor job of this in the past. I admitted fault with our system. I'm not sure what else I can possible do at the moment other then state that we're looking into the issue and ask that we can PLEASE move on from pointing fingers at one another.

FreeFlyBertl
I see there are still threads around with "X3c" and "crashes" in their titles, yet they go over pages and get really hard to keep up with on a limited time budget; these threads don't seem to come to definite conclusions or real solutions ... or maybe I just blanked out reading through the 40th post ...
 
So, anything definite with X3c which could be identified to stay clear off that would get you into crashing territory??? Some hard fact like the 64 bit engine bug causing the hum and all sort of other issues???
 
The reason I ask is that I can work with X3c for hours and be a real happy camper, but then unexpectedly one project just will go nuts on me (i.e. it won't open after save, or crash when freezing tracks, ...) yet these things are hardly ever reproducible (and if they are, Cakewalk support ignores them anyway).
 
One thing I've come to realize is that X3c does not like projects or templates created in X2; using them will eventually bite you ... not straight away, but once the project gets complicated (e.g. goes beyond the 50+ track count, requires advanced routing/SC, etc) - not being able to feed on leftovers from previous work is a real bummer since it makes it either unsafe to pull things in from previous projects or time consuming if you don't and always start over ...
 
The 2nd unsafe bet is the freeze/unfreeze functionality where I managed to crash with quite a few plugs from different vendors (melodyne, fabfilter synths, kontakt 5, ...)
 
 
 
 

Instead of trying to find ways to crash the program, why don't you just use it to create music and have fun. If you run into a problem, send us a bug report. SONAR X3 has been very stable. Of course it's possible to crash any program but why don't you focus on just creating music?
 
We are working on a new patch, SONAR X3d, that will have lots of fixes and enhancements to an already stable program. You asked us to focus on stability, and we responded. I don't understand the purpose of this thread at all.

Ryan, I appreciate all the efforts you are putting in in resolving this issue. Believe me, I used to not be so jaded by this issue. But let me give you an example, maybe my frustration will be a bit clearer:
 

Ryan Munnis
If the goal is getting the issue resolved, then I've already stated multiple times how that can be done and told you how I've escalated your issue internally to our developers

 
But then...
 

Frankly speaking, I haven't been here as long as you have and I don't know why exactly it hasn't been fixed thus far.

But I can tell you that our CTO and the Dev lead for SONAR think it's a critical issue that must be addressed.

A message from a CW employee (that I believe is no longer with CW), March 30, 2011
 
 
Ryan, if you can manage to get this resolved then you would have performed a miracle in my book that no-one at CW have been able to do for 5 years now. I'm really rooting for you in pushing this through.

Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk]
Instead of trying to find ways to crash the program, why don't you just use it to create music and have fun. If you run into a problem, send us a bug report. SONAR X3 has been very stable. Of course it's possible to crash any program but why don't you focus on just creating music?
 
We are working on a new patch, SONAR X3d, that will have lots of fixes and enhancements to an already stable program. You asked us to focus on stability, and we responded. I don't understand the purpose of this thread at all.

I think the OP's point is that he is trying to "just use it to make music and have fun". However for him Sonar crashes randomly for no apparent reason, and he is trying to understand what all the known causes for Sonar crashing are. Once he knows that he can try to determine if any of those apply in his case, and then use the known work-arounds so that he can get to the point where can "just use it to make music and have fun".
 
I think it is a valid question to ask. The title can be a bit misleading but if you read the 1st post it makes sense.

Andrew Rossa [Cakewalk
I don't understand the purpose of this thread at all.

Say someone is using Sonar and it crashes.  Mightn't coming on here and looking at a list of possible and known causes save the user valuable time by providing some paths to investigate ?
 
The same applies to a more general list of known issues.
 
I can certain see that these kinds of lists aren't something a business would care to have on its website, but they could be maintained elsewhere by some volonteer.  I've been thinking of doing something like this myself to refer to when something goes wrong while using Sonar.  It would save searching the forums each time.
 
You can't deny that X3C has several issues known to all of us here, but most likely completely unknown to all the other users who don't hang around here.  That's a lot of head scratching.
 

I guess what I am suggesting is that you try to put the frustration aside for the short haul, to allow Ryan the opportunity to help get this resolved for you.
 
It does certainly seem that there are multiple internal things occurring on behalf of getting your issue resolved, and I think that he has done enough of that for the folks here in the forum for long enough that if would be fair to give him that opportunity.
 
That's kind of what I was getting at - He's really expended a lot of time and effort, particularly recently, including weekends, evenings, early mornings, and were it me in your situation, I would try to hold off for the time being on the venom and let him work the issue.
 
All of us let others down from time to time, and I believe he has acknowledged where things fell apart in the support process from past attempts at getting this addressed.  I know that Cakewalk has been working at improving the support process of late, and it takes time to get things to a better state.  It will never be perfect - but they are working at it.
 
Hang in there - Ryan is a good guy, and worth an investment in patience, and he is working this and I can vouch from other observations of threads where he has stayed with things on multiple occasions, to make sure things got resolved.
 
Bob Bone