@twigman - every one has their own way of working.  But some would say that typically, speedy power users use keyboard short cuts more that mouse clicks.

An example would be <ctl> A to select all, <ctl> X or <ctl> C to cut or copy, and <ctl> V to paste - way faster than using the mouse to got to the Edit menu to select these functions.  And once you've mastered these, you gain incredible speed and efficiency through the repetitive motion.

Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk
]

I hit C, make the change, and hit C agian to get it out of the way.

I agree that this is quick enough and makes the CB concept in itself a good improvement top Sonar.

FWIW: The module concept of the CB needs to be taken to the next level IMO.

Just to make sure it doesn't get missed, let me repeat my previous suggestion:

It would be great if the Control Bar had three modes. The Current mode as it exists in X1a, a Compact mode and a Button Mode.
The Compact Mode is similar to the current mode but everything is smaller and tighter. The Button Mode is just one (SMALL!) button height high with all the relevant and necessary buttons and maybe the most relevant text modules like Loop Points (side by side to save height) and of course the usual ability to select which modules are shown. And, as I have already suggested elsewhere, the ability to undock any module.

If this kind of approach is implemented I think it is really important that the buttons in the Button Mode are small for two reasons: It makes the overall height small and it allows more items horizontally. (Assuming the buttons are as large as they are tall of course). The least important of the three modes I suggest would be the compact mode. The combination of the Button Mode and the currently existing mode with quick showing/hiding through the C shortcut should cover most workflows.

I do think the current mode with it's largish size should be kept not least to add the functionality I proposed in my long suggestions list. I'll repost them here to keep them together with the above Control Bar suggestions:

Control Bar:
============
- All Control Bar Modules should be detachable.
- Modules don't need Module names. (Waste of Space).
- Enable/Disable menu should reflect order of modules in the Control Bar.

- Snap To Grid Module has room for a Snap_To/Snap_By toggle button. (Long clicking on the enable/disable button is too slow).
- When you have musical time selected, the other selector (Samples/Seconds/Frames) should show the actual value equivalent automatically calculated based on tempo. So if the tempo is 120 BPM and you have the Snap_To_Grid set to a 1/4 Note and you left the second selector on Seconds, it will show: 0.500 Secs. Wouldn't that be nifty? :-)

- Loop Module: The Format of each value should be easily selectable by right clicking. (When working to film, you might want to loop based on specific SMTP times rather than musical times for instance).
- Loop Module should show Loop Length underneath the start and end times. (There should be room once you remove the word "Loop").

- Selection Module should be called Selection Module in Enable/Disable Menu (Not Select).
- Selection Module should show Selection length. Format (Musical/Absolute/Samples/etc) should be easily changeable by clicking or right clicking.

- Event Inspector should also display info on Audio Clips. (Start Time, Length etc) Now as it is, it is wasting space when you select an Audio Clip. It should also have buttons to toggle the Lock state of clips, Toggle Groove-Clip-Looping, V-Vocal Enable, Mute/Unmute... Make use of all that space! (It would have some redundancy with the info in the Inspector but that doesn't mean it is not useful, Especially if one has the Inspector closed).

- Event Inspector should have a little icon that opens the clip Colour changer. (Yes it has to be that easily accessible).The ability to quickly change a MIDI/Audio CLip's colour makes for more organised and easier arrangement.

Well I could go on and on with ideas and suggestions but I risk being told that it is easier to come up with ideas than implementing them.

UnderTow

pbognar


@twigman - every one has their own way of working.  But some would say that typically, speedy power users use keyboard short cuts more that mouse clicks.

An example would be <ctl> A to select all, <ctl> X or <ctl> C to cut or copy, and <ctl> V to paste - way faster than using the mouse to got to the Edit menu to select these functions.  And once you've mastered these, you gain incredible speed and efficiency through the repetitive motion.

Perhaps but I for one never use the keyboard but could work much much faster in earler versions of Sonar than I can in X1.
For me the X1 UI is a step backward....and we seem further from the ideal keyboard free touchscreen editing suite than ever!

.

Twigman


IMO keystrokes are so pre-Windows - Windows was invented for mouse it's a GUI rather than being reliant on keystrokes like DOS Apps were.

This is rubbish. You can argue that you prefer doing everything with the mouse but you can not argue that using the keyboard is old fashioned. All pro's I know use keyboard shortcuts (including when using windows) and/or control surface dedicated buttons. Profuse use of keyboard shortcuts is pretty much the sign of a pro at work. Mousing will never be as fast as using shortcuts (where applicable).

If you like mousing, fine, but stop characterising shortcuts as old fashioned. They are not.

UnderTow

Twigman

pbognar


@twigman - every one has their own way of working.  But some would say that typically, speedy power users use keyboard short cuts more that mouse clicks.

An example would be <ctl> A to select all, <ctl> X or <ctl> C to cut or copy, and <ctl> V to paste - way faster than using the mouse to got to the Edit menu to select these functions.  And once you've mastered these, you gain incredible speed and efficiency through the repetitive motion.

Perhaps but I for one never use the keyboard but could work much much faster in earler versions of Sonar than I can in X1.
For me the X1 UI is a step backward....and we seem further from the ideal keyboard free touchscreen editing suite than ever!

1) I respect that everyone has a unique way of working


2) I really have to watch my spelling...  I think I'm typing too fast 

UnderTow

Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk
]

I hit C, make the change, and hit C agian to get it out of the way.

I agree that this is quick enough and makes the CB concept in itself a good improvement top Sonar.

FWIW: The module concept of the CB needs to be taken to the next level IMO.

Just to make sure it doesn't get missed, let me repeat my previous suggestion:

It would be great if the Control Bar had three modes. The Current mode as it exists in X1a, a Compact mode and a Button Mode.
The Compact Mode is similar to the current mode but everything is smaller and tighter. The Button Mode is just one (SMALL!) button height high with all the relevant and necessary buttons and maybe the most relevant text modules like Loop Points (side by side to save height) and of course the usual ability to select which modules are shown. And, as I have already suggested elsewhere, the ability to undock any module.

If this kind of approach is implemented I think it is really important that the buttons in the Button Mode are small for two reasons: It makes the overall height small and it allows more items horizontally. (Assuming the buttons are as large as they are tall of course). The least important of the three modes I suggest would be the compact mode. The combination of the Button Mode and the currently existing mode with quick showing/hiding through the C shortcut should cover most workflows.

I do think the current mode with it's largish size should be kept not least to add the functionality I proposed in my long suggestions list. I'll repost them here to keep them together with the above Control Bar suggestions:

Control Bar:
============
- All Control Bar Modules should be detachable.
- Modules don't need Module names. (Waste of Space).
- Enable/Disable menu should reflect order of modules in the Control Bar.

- Snap To Grid Module has room for a Snap_To/Snap_By toggle button. (Long clicking on the enable/disable button is too slow).
- When you have musical time selected, the other selector (Samples/Seconds/Frames) should show the actual value equivalent automatically calculated based on tempo. So if the tempo is 120 BPM and you have the Snap_To_Grid set to a 1/4 Note and you left the second selector on Seconds, it will show: 0.500 Secs. Wouldn't that be nifty? :-)

- Loop Module: The Format of each value should be easily selectable by right clicking. (When working to film, you might want to loop based on specific SMTP times rather than musical times for instance).
- Loop Module should show Loop Length underneath the start and end times. (There should be room once you remove the word "Loop").

- Selection Module should be called Selection Module in Enable/Disable Menu (Not Select).
- Selection Module should show Selection length. Format (Musical/Absolute/Samples/etc) should be easily changeable by clicking or right clicking.

- Event Inspector should also display info on Audio Clips. (Start Time, Length etc) Now as it is, it is wasting space when you select an Audio Clip. It should also have buttons to toggle the Lock state of clips, Toggle Groove-Clip-Looping, V-Vocal Enable, Mute/Unmute... Make use of all that space! (It would have some redundancy with the info in the Inspector but that doesn't mean it is not useful, Especially if one has the Inspector closed).

- Event Inspector should have a little icon that opens the clip Colour changer. (Yes it has to be that easily accessible).The ability to quickly change a MIDI/Audio CLip's colour makes for more organised and easier arrangement.

Well I could go on and on with ideas and suggestions but I risk being told that it is easier to come up with ideas than implementing them.

UnderTow

Thanks for re-posting and there's a lot of good stuff in here that I'll make sure the product management folks see. Interesting ideas on the CB. I agree with a lot of the space saving comments and in fact a lot of these probably are simple (sorry devs!).

But you know it's a lot easier to come up with ideas than...ooops sorry.

mike_mccue


Personally, I like clutter... I'm one of those types that knows exactly where everything is.. it's in that pile over there... EXACTLY where I left it.

best regards,
mike

hmmm... I'm going to have to re-think why I like the X1 interface, because I too think spatially...  my desk  top at work is organized in piles, at home we've got bills spread out all over the dining room table, and I have my far share of clothes on chairs and floors...


Maybe icons are like pens, staplers, hangers, the check book, and procedures at work.  They have to be put away.

UnderTow


but stop characterising shortcuts as old fashioned. They are not.

I hate the term old fashioned....

X1 forces users to use shortcuts if they wish to maintain the speed possible in previous versions of Sonar with the mouse alone.

This is not progress.

By all means use shortcuts if you wish. I have nothing against them but I prefer not to use them as I can't touch type and I can't even see my computer keyboard when I am using it. (Hence all my typos here)....but why take away the mouse friendly aspects of previous versions of Sonar?

I agree with Mike - having everything available to the mouse right where you need it ( or put it, or left it -  remember how customisable the UI used to be with regard to what was in your toolbar?) or being able to right click where the cursor is and Sonar give you choices there and then without moving the cursor of what you want to do next, is far better than having to select from the Edit Filter oe whatever as yo have to move the cursor away from where I need it to be and back again....

I have no intention of lighting my studio and have nowhere else to put my computer keyboard than on this shelf under my desk....I was rather hoping that i might be able to dispose of my mouse too and do everything (apart from inputting numbers via a numberpad) by touching the screen before too long.....sadly it looks like that's never gonna happen....8.5 was so close!!

Twigman


By all means use shortcuts if you wish. I have nothing against them

Then please don't attack them. Argue your point about using the mouse (which btw I agree with. Quick access to click-able functions is a good thing) but don't put down other workflows to promote yours.

UnderTow