John

My personal interest in interleave is due to the fact that I frequently overdub on mono tracks with stereo effects. If I listen to playback in stereo and hit record the interleave swaps back to mono and then I have to see that and be reminded to return it to stereo. I am personally less concerned about phase switching, but it is clear that it is now much less efficient to view and ascertain the phase switch status of each of your tracks. Previously you could make an assessment simultaneously while viewing a dozen or more tracks. Now you can not.

Even in the case you use as an example you don't need all the tracks in your project to show this information. You are working on a single track. With the inspector all the information you need to work on that track is there. It is not hidden to you. Now if you want to glance around to other tracks that are not showing their inspector then you have a case. Beyond that I think you are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

The interleave is a big issue for me. It would be very nice to see the icon back on each track. I work with mainly audio tracks and I can't tell if it's the way X1 is designed, or if there is a bug, but the interleave settings definitely change unexpectedly. The phase, I rarely if ever use it. I much prefer to use the channel tool, especially if it's a stereo track I'm working with.

I'd like to see the FX bins a bit bigger or atleast a better way to see what's in them if you have more than 2 FX

windsurfer25x


I'd like to see the FX bins a bit bigger or atleast a better way to see what's in them if you have more than 2 FX

I fully agree.

Bub

John

My personal interest in interleave is due to the fact that I frequently overdub on mono tracks with stereo effects. If I listen to playback in stereo and hit record the interleave swaps back to mono and then I have to see that and be reminded to return it to stereo. I am personally less concerned about phase switching, but it is clear that it is now much less efficient to view and ascertain the phase switch status of each of your tracks. Previously you could make an assessment simultaneously while viewing a dozen or more tracks. Now you can not.

Even in the case you use as an example you don't need all the tracks in your project to show this information. You are working on a single track. With the inspector all the information you need to work on that track is there. It is not hidden to you. Now if you want to glance around to other tracks that are not showing their inspector then you have a case. Beyond that I think you are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

The interleave is a big issue for me. It would be very nice to see the icon back on each track. I work with mainly audio tracks and I can't tell if it's the way X1 is designed, or if there is a bug, but the interleave settings definitely change unexpectedly. The phase, I rarely if ever use it. I much prefer to use the channel tool, especially if it's a stereo track I'm working with.

LOL I was hoping no one would bring up that bug. That is a valid reason to have them displayed. However when CW fixes the bug the need will disappear. I hope.

Brandon,

Just to observe that the removal of phase and interleave from the TV inspector has broken one of Sonar's USP's (and the one that has consistently kept me part of the family since 'XL'). This is the fact that Sonar (up to 8.5) is the only DAW that I can find that doesn't require switching between horizontal and vertical planes of reference.


I'm glad to see you acknowledge the value of returning them in your fifth point above.


I also agree that 'prettiness' is subjective, and seeing as we're sharing I gotta say that I really don't care about it! For me, in a DAW effective and easy function equates to beauty. The dark shade of grey in X1 is fine by me (check out my own 'Dark Default' 8.5 scheme on Sonartemplates), but the changing of all the controls in the track header to the same colour is a problem for me, I purposely have mine set to 'clash' against each other so they are easy to distinguish at a glance.


Is there any likelihood that these couple of 'simple' (and I use the phrase advisedly) fixes my be included in X1b?


Many thanks,
Child

John

My personal interest in interleave is due to the fact that I frequently overdub on mono tracks with stereo effects. If I listen to playback in stereo and hit record the interleave swaps back to mono and then I have to see that and be reminded to return it to stereo. I am personally less concerned about phase switching, but it is clear that it is now much less efficient to view and ascertain the phase switch status of each of your tracks. Previously you could make an assessment simultaneously while viewing a dozen or more tracks. Now you can not.

Even in the case you use as an example you don't need all the tracks in your project to show this information. You are working on a single track. With the inspector all the information you need to work on that track is there. It is not hidden to you. Now if you want to glance around to other tracks that are not showing their inspector then you have a case. Beyond that I think you are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Some of us mix by being able to look at as much unabbreviated information for as many tracks as possible...  The track view (with all if it's options fully visible/selectable) in the previous version of Sonar suits me best...

It's not like folks are asking the bakers to embark on a new concept... just to be allowed the most logically efficient option in accessing our project information within the track view..

If you can not understand where I am coming from - then I will take much solace in the fact that Brandon's response leads me to believe that we can expect to see some tweaks in the UI which will improve upon the current situation!

Also I would like to see the plug-in names within the (hopefully larger) FX bin restored to being non-abbreviated... 

This would be great for my UAD & SSL Duende plug-ins... as the 1st three characters are always 'UAD' or 'SSL' respectively...

Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk
]
One final point I'll make that is personal and subjective: Regardless of the arguable problems with the picture on the right, I personally find it quite a bit more attractive to look at.

I feel the same. The colours and the sharpness in X1 is much more pleasant that the default 8.5.3 offerings. (personally, I use a colour scheme in V8 as created by one Sonar user).

1) You wouldn't cover every square inch of your wall space or floor space in your home with objects would you? Every inch of the counter tops and tables packed with objects ready to be used at a mere whim? If you did it would probably look a lot like those hoarder's homes you see on TV.

This is a bad analogy for one simple reason: a music software UI has to fullfil a role of being usable, clear, and pleasant (all at the same time). My wall/floor space does not need to fullfil all these roles. I could have clutter all over, or have it clean as in a Zen garden. My wall is not a commercial product, yet Sonar is, and it needs to adhere to good design principles.

Did you see the post where UnderTow showed a retouched image of how the track view in X1 could look? It showed a much better use of the space. Your wall would have liked that as well!

Brandon: One final point I'll make that is personal and subjective: Regardless of the arguable problems with the picture on the right, I personally find it quite a bit more attractive to look at.

My whole point in posting the original screenshot was not which one is more attractive. It was which one shows more information. I fully agree that 'white' space is needed in a good layout. But X1 is not a good layout. 8.5 is not necessarily either, but IMO the usability of the X1 header is a step back.

But I'm glad to see that you agree about the I/O names and FX bins. Although you didn't say if you thought they should be wider... they really need to be wider or show complete plugin names for the majority of plugins out there. Sure if there's a plugin called "Super Karate Monkey Death Car Flanger" I'd say that showing the whole name would be excessive. But X1 cuts off the vast majority of my plugin names. I think the 80/20 rule is a good approach here. Make the FX bin and text size such that it will be able to fully display the names of 80% of the plugins that Cakewalk has on hand to test. Hey, I'd even accept cutting off the last character of the longest of those 80%.

John

My personal interest in interleave is due to the fact that I frequently overdub on mono tracks with stereo effects. If I listen to playback in stereo and hit record the interleave swaps back to mono and then I have to see that and be reminded to return it to stereo. I am personally less concerned about phase switching, but it is clear that it is now much less efficient to view and ascertain the phase switch status of each of your tracks. Previously you could make an assessment simultaneously while viewing a dozen or more tracks. Now you can not.

Even in the case you use as an example you don't need all the tracks in your project to show this information. You are working on a single track. With the inspector all the information you need to work on that track is there. It is not hidden to you. Now if you want to glance around to other tracks that are not showing their inspector then you have a case. Beyond that I think you are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

I almost included in my post that I anticipated that you would make this non productive counter argument but I deleted that portion of my post because I considered it unfriendly.

Now that you have made this counter productive presentation I will simply respond that the simple fact that any one of us wants to have this available in track view, as it has been for many years, is enough to nullify any argument against this that you may pose.

You are free to have a preference... and your opinion, but it is insulting that you insist on forcing us to adopt your preference while using invalid arguments and offering your opinion as fact.