• SONAR
  • ProChannel Gain Questions (p.3)
2013/11/27 19:22:01
John T
The Sounding Off page at the back of this month's Sound On Sound has some good stuff to say about this kind of design and why it's unhelpful. I hope lots of DAW developers have read it.
 
2013/11/27 19:30:27
John
I don't rely on the LEDs. Most modules have meters that are more important. I look at the LEDs as an indication of the amount of signal flow. I don't care that much what they are reading either. Here its what it sounds like that matters. If you do hear a problem such as unwanted distortion they can help track down where the problem is.  
2013/11/27 19:34:06
John
With X3 one could use the pop out EQ and see what it says. If its not doing its job than place it anywhere along the chain you want to monitor and this would let you know exactly what is going on. 
2013/11/27 19:36:03
jb101
I have a screenset that has the track view, with the console view docked at the top, that only shows the ProChannel Module.
 
This means that I can play through a track and see if there is any risk of clipping.
 
If one of them starts showing red, I check through the signal path to see which module might be overloading.
 
I think it was Craig Anderton who pointed out that this became more important if you used the Console Emulators.
 
I used to use empty FX Chain modules to help with gain staging, but now just try to tweak each stage carefully.
 
I think the part of the reasoning is that , although digital audio has a huge headroom, individual modules may be pushed beyond what they were initially modelled to do.  I may be wrong, of course.
 
Having said that, it has certainly not harmed my work to be careful with gain staging.
2013/11/27 19:45:17
Keni
John T
Well, as explained in that thread that lawp linked to above, it shades from yellow to orange to red as it approaches 0db. And there's a whole lot of "deep orange" in there that looks pretty red to most people. It's ok, for what it does, but I think there should be a separate clip light, that lights up *only* on overs.

It's kind of a weird design, for a piece of software; it's the kind of thing you'd do on budget hardware to cut down on the amount of LEDs you need for each unit, but makes no sense at all when an infinite number of "LEDs" costs the same as one.

Indeed, it's not clear to me why it's even an LED. There's enough room for a little strip meter.


Thanks...

I'm gonna tackle that thread next...

So there is an interim color that's been confusing me. That's the orange that looks slightly red when the CV shows no clipping at all I guess...

Very true... I'm with you and would prefer a little meter or at least a virtual LED stack with an actual over indicator separate from the almost indicators! I find the current indicators impossible to read well and obviously needed...

Anyone for mass feature requests? ;-)

Keni
2013/11/28 10:52:36
gswitz
Keni, keep in mind that some of the plugs become over driven before you clip the signal. They model some of the gear with being able to run it too hot as a feature.

Ears should help choose the right setting.

If unsure, you could apply the effect with gain and threshold adjusted the same amount and bounce to tracks. Then a/b the results.

So in that case, a colored pc overdrive light might indicate that the plug is running hot, but not that you are clipping.
2013/11/28 15:06:35
Keni
gswitz
Keni, keep in mind that some of the plugs become over driven before you clip the signal. They model some of the gear with being able to run it too hot as a feature.

Ears should help choose the right setting.

If unsure, you could apply the effect with gain and threshold adjusted the same amount and bounce to tracks. Then a/b the results.

So in that case, a colored pc overdrive light might indicate that the plug is running hot, but not that you are clipping.


Thanks gswitz...

I always use my ears as well... But I remember that my ears don't always notice everything hence the need for metering and the likes. I heard no unusual distortion or artifacts, but if the meter says it's there I give it the benefit of the doubt.

To date I have always readjusted my gain to remove overs wherever I see them regardless of hearing them...

I'm just trying to understand what's going on here..

Yes, I remember that assorted hardwares are more or less sensitive... And I've subscribed to the theory that if properly modeled, the digital should show the same traits... So I'm believing that's the case... For example, the Console Emulator is far more sensitive than the other modules... Hence Craig's note regarding the input stage of it... I don't remember any of the 3 consoles modeled being that sensitive to input gain tho...

Keni
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