Notion 4 is 64 bit, is it not? I've been using Notion since Cake had the sale on Notion 3. I never could get it to work on my 64 bit rigs. It would completely crashed the computer out. Notion 4 came along and I am a happy camper for my uses anyway. It works in ReWire with X3 as well. BTW, I had to purchase the upgrade to Notion 4 but it was well worth it.

scook
in X3 Producer staff view Print menu "Export to MusicXML..."

I think "Duh" is appropriate. Thanks.
 
Walt

I haven't needed to go from Sonar to Finale in a while, so I thought I'd play with it last night before piping in...
 
So I tried it last night, and it works quite well. I am using Sonar X3c and Finale 2010 (soon to upgrade to 2014).
 
There are a couple things that MusicXML does not handle well, and you have to be aware of them. The one that always gets me is time signature changes. If you insert multiple time signature changes they may be ignored. I know that this has been discussed on various MusicXML forums, but it has not yet been resolved.
 
So what is the big deal? Why doesn't Sonar just do something about all this?
 
1) the number of Sonar users that read/write notation is small, the number that use it is even smaller. This applies to musicians in general, but I point out the Sonar connection just to be thorough<G>
 
2) MIDI and notation are not equal... not even close really. Standard notation is a means of conveying a musical idea to a musician. MIDI is a way of recording and playing a musical performance. They are not the same!
 
I have played around with conversion between MIDI and notation - both directions - since the days of Dr. T's Copyist and KCS. I have a pretty good idea - I think - of what is needed, but I'm not sure that the cure is any better than the symptoms... and I do not have the chops to implement it anyway (I do have a PERL prototype somewhere, but it was ugly!)
 
What is needed is a rule set that is user manageable. There needs to be a way to define the beats - there are way more ticks in a measure than beats, so you have to be able to say that a note is a quarter note if it starts in this range of ticks, and lasts for this range of ticks. Yes - it seems like the current crop of quantizing tools ought to do the trick, and in fact if you are willing to work hard enough you can get some great results that way, but it is slow. Slower, I think, than cleaning up the score in Finale.
 
And of course the rule set has to go both ways. I think that's the intent of Human Playback in Finale, and in some limited number of cases it can work well, but the number of cases is pretty small yet.
 
My solution, for now, is to try to make only one conversion in each direction.
 
If I start in Finale then I can either export to MIDI and import into Sonar (which works quite well, except for that overly quantized bit) - or I can print out the parts and play them in. This later approach sounds better by far, but my keyboard skills are not always up to the task. In either case, I can then tweak to my heart's content in Sonar until I end up with a PERFORMANCE that sounds great. At which point I may, or may not, need to export to XML and re-import back into Finale. Sometimes, (not often) the changes I made in Sonar are so insignificant that I can skip this step. Wish it happened more often!!!
 
If I start in Sonar then I only need that Sonar to Finale step... but I am still so much more comfortable thinking in standard notation that I usually start in Finale.
 
I would love it if Staff view was on a par with Finale, even if only for note entry. But I don't think that's a particularly good use of resources, so I continue with my work flow and usually I do not grumble all that much<G>!

wst3
I haven't needed to go from Sonar to Finale in a while, so I thought I'd play with it last night before piping in...
.........................
1) the number of Sonar users that read/write notation is small, the number that use it is even smaller. This applies to musicians in general, but I point out the Sonar connection just to be thorough<G>
 
2) MIDI and notation are not equal... not even close really. Standard notation is a means of conveying a musical idea to a musician. MIDI is a way of recording and playing a musical performance. They are not the same!
 

Reminds me of an old "words of wisdom:
- How do you get a guitarist to turn down the volume? 
- ANSWER: Put sheet music in front of her/him@!
 
I gave up on Finale about 3-4 years ago and switched to Sibelius. Finale just kept getting more complicated to use as they added features (kinda like Sonar before the switch to Xn). Sibelius keeps getting simpler and more efficient with each release. 

love that joke!!! (not that it's true or anything...)
 
I've tried Sibelius numerous times, but not in the last 3-4 years I think. And I haven't upgraded Finale since 2010 either... they just hadn't offered any new features that I felt I needed. They almost got me with linked parts, and I am seriously considering the upgrade to 2014, but for now 2010 still does what I need it to do.
 
I think they are both complex, but in different ways, and since I've been using Finale since the mid 1990's I'm accustomed to their version of complexity I guess. But your note has prompted me to wander off to their web site next to see if they have a demo...

I am glad to say that more and more young serious musicians are learning to read. Notation is still a weakness in the average world of music out there. But, there seems to be an interest lately in the ones coming up with writing and reading those notes and dynamics. I started my musical study with classical piano lessons at the ripe old age of 10. By the time I picked up the guitar, I had no trouble converting what I saw on paper to the guitar neck. While formal study is not really a priority anymore, it seems to be making a comeback. I have always romped and stomped about the weaknesses of the notation in Cake products. But until notation once again becomes a strong enough interest group I'm afraid we will be stuck with always using a third party alternative. Although, Notion 4 has worked really well in conjunction with X3 and I will be happy to stick with that for a while.

admagination
Imagine.  Working on a project you know will need a score kicked out and parts.  You use your DAW because the 2 big notators have useless MIDI engines.  So instead of exporting a MIDI 01 file and put it into a notator program, you just go to your plug in list and insert a notation front end.  Last time sequencing software had a decent notator was Logic 5, just before Apple came in heavy.  And go back to Notator / Atari and really put out the written page
 
So, either Finale or Sybilus will take the challenge and make a plug in that integrates with DAW's and they will win the war on that front.

What makes you think a plugin would be any better than what Sonar already offers?

PS- I'll bet that Dyno-Rhodes is awesome. I played several of them way back when, and always wanted to get that kit. Never did. My Rhodes is sitting in the basement in about 74 pieces<G>... I will rebuild it one of these days... really I will. I do miss it. And if I do I may put a MIDI retrofit under the key bed. That would be cool!!
 

John

What makes you think a plugin would be any better than what Sonar already offers?

If it wasn't there would be no point int doing it but a plugin might be easier to develop since it would not require diving into Sonar code..

a plugin technically wouldn't be easier, imho.  it would likely need to be a midi plugin for one - and the facility for that has never been standardized - there was mfx, but support there has been lacking.  you'd also need some sort of master plugin to receive data from all of the instances of the other plugs on midi tracks, which may or may not be possible do do - you would need massive lookahead on playback, or a way to trigger the plugin to read the midi information per-track.  the other alternative would be a vst, but then you would have the issue of having to route all your midi tracks (at least in sonar) to the "notation" plugin and have some facility in the plugin to send out back to the various soft synths if you want to hear while you're playing back, which would be tricky because even with vst midi out you'd be limited to 16 channels per instance of the plugin - requiring in most cases multiple instances of the plugins to talk to each other and consolidate the data, or -again- a master plugin of some sort.  
not really sure there would be a way to hack vst to be able to make all the necessary connections and read-ahead all the data from an entire project...