what i learned in my research on building a project guitar

yeah, i know, it's blahblahblahblah..
but i thought i'd share for anyone who is interested in building project guitars..
I THINK A LOT OF TIMES...
it's really the way a guitar FEELS to the player, more than the sound that everyone else is hearing.
and that is a very tangible thing, and is personal, and can make a HUGE difference to players who are very sensitive and affected by the physical side of sonics.
 

in my years of playing, and building the odd project here and there, the one thing that i consistently saw, was that if it sounded spanky without being plugged in, it'd sound spanky plugged in.
and if it sounded dead sitting in the shop, and if i plugged it in, dead.
 
(now, this is not to be confused with lots of gain, and radical tone shaping, and all that...
just the basic pure sound of the guitar amplified, versus acoustically playing it)...
 
and i've switched out bridges and electronics, even nuts, and they all did do a little something....
but i think the magic comes from the 'tone' of the neck, and the 'tone' of the body.
and then the mojo is, marrying the two together.

"as far as warmoth's conversion necks go......."
 
when i researched and built my USACG project strat my luthier and i, had at our disposal, 5 strats in house, for sell or repairs or work....
3 fender strats of various vintage and country of origin (korean, MIM, MIJ)....
and 2 brand new american made strats.
we had my luthier's WARMOTH strat and neck....which is a conversion-compound neck, pro style, double expanding truss rod.

plus, we had a few other strat wannabes-- Godin, Ibanez, the odd project guitar..
we did, at various points in the discovery process, take apart most of them.
 
 
one thing i noticed, was that certain 'necks' would not pass the 'tap test'.
 
what the tap test was, was simply hanging the neck (with all hardware off of it) from a hanger thru a machine head hole, and 'tapping' on the wood with the finger.
you could rap the back of the neck with your knuckle, and you could hear a distinct 'ring' or 'tone' in the wood.
every single neck was different.

some were solid maple, some maple with maple caps, some with rosewood caps....
all different.
as you would expect.
 
but some were dead sounding, and some were very lively.
needless to say, the 'lively' sounding necks, sounded the best on the bodies.
the bodies, a similar thing.
when i asked for my strat body, i decided on alder, and i specifically asked for the 'lightest 2-piece alder body' they had...
 
why 2 piece?

i don't know, i guess cuz the nicest body i found in the test, was a lightweight, 2 piece body that had a nitro finish on it, so that's what i patterned after.
 
i also had read a lot of articles on pros that had vintage strats, and that seemed to be a common thread.
when i got my alder body, while it was still raw, it had that 'tap tone'.
 
now when we experimented with various pieces at hand, you could hear the difference in the overall sound of the guitar (plugged in or not) when switching the necks out with different bodies.
also, the necks that had vintage style truss rods (one of the reasons i went with the USACG necks over the warmoth necks) was another big 'aha'.
 
it seems that, the way the wood is cut, and how the truss rod was installed, made the biggest difference of all, over wood types and fingerboard selection...
 
i took a maple/rosewood warmoth neck, with a gibson conversion scale, the double expanding truss rod thingy (which really makes the neck heavier and somewhat dead sounding) and a/b'd it against my freshly minted USACG neck with rock maple neck and pau ferro fretboard, basically the same neck as the usacg, except for the truss rod and the fret wood.
no contest.
 
my neck had the 'tap tone', and the warmoth did not.

plain and simple.....
 
i was absolutely convinced.
 
another difference BETWEEN my neck and the warmoth i compared to, in particular was the construction of the 'tiltback' headstock.
the usacg uses a volute construction...
the warmoth used scarf joint.
that seems to have some bearing as well.
moral of the story....
it's gotta be the wood, and how it's constructed.
 

batsbrew
but i think the magic comes from the 'tone' of the neck, and the 'tone' of the body.
and then the mojo is, marrying the two together.

I built one for a lifelong friend that was going to be traveling thousands of miles in a car so I built two different necks in hopes that if the original plan failed I've had a second chance (time constrant) for success.
 
Fortunately the original did "marry" with the body.
 
I also had another guitar just in case "his" wasn't pegging the meter. He's a happy camper....so I am too.
 
Great posts Bat and Drew.

Michael and Bat....excellent information.
 
Per Bats comments, I always get these really weird looks when I go into a guitar store and play all of the electrics without even plugging them in.  The sales guys will always say, "Don't you want to plug that in and hear how it sounds."  To which I will comment, "No, I will find the one of the bunch that is going to sound best unplugged first."  They think I am nuts, but I have found what Bat has mentioned to be absolutely true.  Certain instruments just come together to where they 'ring' or 'snap' naturally.  

michaelhanson
...They think I am nuts, 

Then again, they might know completely but won't admit it.  They have to sell the dead ones too... 

craigb

michaelhanson
...They think I am nuts, 

Then again, they might know completely but won't admit it.  They have to sell the dead ones too... 

Ha...I doubt it.  Most of them don't even know what wood the guitars made from.  

michaelhanson
Michael and Bat....excellent information.
 
Per Bats comments, I always get these really weird looks when I go into a guitar store and play all of the electrics without even plugging them in.  The sales guys will always say, "Don't you want to plug that in and hear how it sounds."  To which I will comment, "No, I will find the one of the bunch that is going to sound best unplugged first."  They think I am nuts, but I have found what Bat has mentioned to be absolutely true.  Certain instruments just come together to where they 'ring' or 'snap' naturally.  

But Bat also badmouths Warmoth every time these discussions come up based on "construction" from tapping 3 necks (and apparently not knowing that Warmoth offers 3 different guitar neck construction types, including vintage single truss) - which would imply all of those identically constructed guitars you're trying should be the same.

drewfx1
 
But Bat also badmouths Warmoth every time these discussions come up based on "construction" from tapping 3 necks (and apparently not knowing that Warmoth offers 3 different guitar neck construction types, including vintage single truss) - which would imply all of those identically constructed guitars you're trying should be the same.

 
WTF
 
well, i DO know this,
that the only neck i'm interested in for myself,
is a gibson scale length,
which requires a 'modern construction' neck from warmoth,
which uses a double truss rod,
which i have found to kill the neck vibrations pretty demonstrably.
 
i should re-write my piece to be more concise,
but i just don't feel like it.

 
i'll leave it to others to do their own homework,
and hopefully if they are good at it, they'll come up with the same info i came up.
 
and anyone is free to counter my opinion,
or, rather,
consider it.
 
i'm not meaning to badmouth Warmoth as a blanket statement...
i like a lot of their bodies,
and will probably buy one of their necks next, for a 'special' project....
 
but i will preface my previous post as saying "as far as warmoth's conversion necks go......."
 
the rest of it, are my findings as they actually occurred.
and either my opinion matters to someone, or it doesn't.

michaelhanson
...I always get these really weird looks when I go into a guitar store and play all of the electrics without even plugging them in.  The sales guys will always say, "Don't you want to plug that in and hear how it sounds."  To which I will comment, "No, I will find the one of the bunch that is going to sound best unplugged first."  They think I am nuts, but I have found what Bat has mentioned to be absolutely true.  Certain instruments just come together to where they 'ring' or 'snap' naturally.  

I do that too, but it's because I care much more about the feel of the guitar than the sound.
I can work with a bad-sounding guitar, swapping out whatever is needed.  But if the neck and body don't feel good, I'll never want to pick it up.

I agree, with you Slugbaby, I care equally about the feel. I would not buy a guitar if I didn't like the playability or the feel of it.

I do think that a lot of people mistake bad setups for bad feel, however.

All I will say since this thread has gone in this direction is that I have used double-action truss-rods in short and long scale lengths and will continue using them. (also in combination with graphite rods)
If I build a neck that doesn't have one it will be by request.
I'll also say that I think one of the smartest things Fender has done is switch to a double action wheel type with the wheel exposed....however...I prefer to have a nice access hole in the fretboard rather than cutting out a notch as they do. I know many luthiers think notching the fretboard is the cheap way out but understand why factory work would.
I also thought that it was cool that I was doing it before them!! lol  Like Fender stole from me !! lol.... what it was -they simply got smarter it's not like I was the first.
Not only does it make adjustment easier- nothing has to be removed- one can use any small diameter rod to turn the wheel- no special tool to fit required. Spread the strings, insert ( I've used allen wrenches or the little pocket screwdrivers to fit in the hole) and adjust. Simple. Also leaves wood in the neck at the head...I'd say that's a good thing too...especially for Gibson style...after all, they are the one with being weak in that area. If they haven't already we may see them switch too.