When discussing VSTi that generate midi output to trigger another soft synth......do not forget about the Mighty Jamstix3 !!!
 
I use Jamstix on every project, if you want to use Jamstix with Battery, or BFD, or EZ drummer, or Session Drummer, or Addictive Drums you have to use enable midi out.  
 
Essentially Sonar is capable of accurately routing only one channel of enable midi out right now.  (of course it is not hard to accurately route only 1 channel of midi !!)
 
Jeff

grumbleweed4162

stevec
Thanks, Grum.   For whatever reason I completey missed that post!   Printing in 5, 4, 3, 2...  
 
 
 
Edit: Are you just enabling Input Echo on both synth tracks?  Step six seems to indicate that, so I wasn't sure if MIDI out was still was a factor.
 

Both tracks are blue. I discovered a while back it (in X2) both have to be on for this to work (I lost a lot of hair trying to figure out the lack of sound).
I also just discovered the zeta output is the plain note and not the pattern (as I first suspected).
 
Grum.

Right, that is Input Echo.   So if synth1 is playing back it's track, synth2 will also play that data as long as both Input Echo buttons are enabled... but I'm also assuming that this is only after running through the MIDI out steps in the first half?   
 
Enabling Input Echo on multiple synths always allowed you to hear those synths played back via a controller - like a massive layered synth in real-time - but I've never used it for pure playback purposes.    Thanks!
 

robert_e_bone
I don't see what I do as a work around, it is how I chose to do it all along, and it works just fine.
 
As far as the arpeggiator recording goes, I don't quite understand why doing a copy/paste after you recorded the initial track wouldn't work - perhaps I am not getting what you were trying to explain.
 
Bob Bone
 

Thanks - to you and the rest doing input here.
And that it might be a fail in X3 for something working at least with one instance in X2 is really interesting info.
I find that my initial bugreport that was rejected holds as a real bug(CWBRN-20328).
 
The natural workaround for unison playing - is as you say. But why maintain two different clips if it can be done in a single clip.
 
But there are as listed by many now, many uses where you cannot get passed without midi out functionality.
 
For me the most important fail is support and bugreport handling. Such a complex piece of software it's bound to be erratic behavior in there - since there are so many pieces of software that interact.
 
But as Cake do - thinking users are idiots and their grand support is the true guide to successfully narrow down these bugs - not with this guy that responded to me anyway - he thinks it's a documentation error.
 
If Cake allow us - we are in this together and will gladly supply feedback to narrow down issues.
 
Carefully collect and look through all bugreports and see what might be common to an issue. It will surely fail in different ways on different people - still being the same issue in software.
 
Something is very wrong in how Cake approach problems - since they remain over generations of major versions causing very frustrated and finally angry customerbase and in the end not being part of customerbase at all.
 
X3 is a really nice piece of software that is worth fighting a bit for. But as of now I don't trust Cake's ability to get on top of things.

Please don't sit here and insult our IQs and suggest we're thinking our users are idiots. This doesn't help us dig into issues together. It's extremely hard to help someone when they're insulting your IQ instead of just providing a clear set of steps of what they're doing. I noticed you didn't insult the other forum members here? Why treat Cakewalk staff any differently? Why not just reply to person you were working with and let him know you think he's mistaken versus coming here and trying to humiliate him publicly without their knowledge?
 
Perhaps it's just me, but I'm actually having a hard time understanding the steps you specifically are taking and what your expectations are. I'm not saying there's not an issue here, it's just this entire thread feels a bit ambiguous to me. What synth are you using? What exact steps are you taking? What is your routing set up like? I'd like to know the exact context to put it in for the sake of being able to understand more accurately, not to be a pain.
 
I think perhaps what we should do is start over and redefine exactly what you're doing and exactly what isn't working. Also we should stop paraphrasing what support has or hasn't said. It's a bit misleading. If there's a bug, let's bug it up.
 
Edit for typos.

Well, I don't speak for Cakewalk but I think this thread kind of explains why the issue hasn't received priority...not a lot of people understand this feature or why they would want to use it, and others have ways to deal with accomplishing much of what this feature would accomplish. Also I don't know how many synths have MIDI out enabled to actually do something.
 
Frankly this is something I hadn't tried so I didn't know what, if anything, didn't work but now I'll check it out to find out what y'all are talking about. I didn't really understand the problem until Mystic38's post.
 
As to the level of support, Cakewalk is a very small company. It's entirely possible that the support person who answered the ticket isn't all that familiar with the feature. This isn't to say they shouldn't know every possible element of the program, but in practical terms, that's not always possible.
 
There have been times I've contacted tech support at bigger companies and the person I got couldn't answer my question. So I called back immediately and got someone else, and often, they did have an answer. If not, I called back during when it was after hours in the US but working hours in India. Most of the time they got it right, even though sometimes it was hard to understand the accent.

Anderton
Well, I don't speak for Cakewalk but I think this thread kind of explains why the issue hasn't received priority...not a lot of people understand this feature or why they would want to use it, and others have ways to deal with accomplishing much of what this feature would accomplish. Also I don't know how many synths have MIDI out enabled to actually do something. Frankly this is something I hadn't tried so I didn't know what, if anything, didn't work but now I'll check it out to find out what y'all are talking about. I didn't really understand the problem until Mystic38's post. As to the level of support, Cakewalk is a very small company. It's entirely possible that the support person who answered the ticket isn't all that familiar with the feature. This isn't to say they shouldn't know every possible element of the program, but in practical terms, that's not always possible. There have been times I've contacted tech support at bigger companies and the person I got couldn't answer my question. So I called back immediately and got someone else, and often, they did have an answer. If not, I called back during when it was after hours in the US but working hours in India. Most of the time they got it right, even though sometimes it was hard to understand the accent.

I've definitely been that first and second agent many times!

We all try our best to know as much as possible, but there is so much technology out there it's almost impossible to keep up. SONAR X3 introducing VST3 support resulted in me having to look at more third-party plugins then I ever have before! I actually spent an entire day just installing and authorizing plugins. I didn't even get to testing any of them!

Anyhow, I'm rambling. SONAR has a lot going on and so does Cakewalk. We have some very green support reps who jumped in at the busiest time possible and are trying to soak up as much as humanly possible. We're extremely dedicated to helping to make SONAR better and better and we haven't even revealed our full hand yet. We are a small team though, so from time to time we definitely do make mistakes. Best way to fix them, in my experience at least, is to just shake hands... Move past the mistakes... And work towards the solutions together. That to me is where this community and Cakewalk shines.

I'd like to do that with this issue if anyone is with me.

(Sent from my phone in a bumpy train ride... Excuse typos :)

Ryan Munnis [Cakewalk]
Please don't sit here and insult our IQs and suggest we're thinking our users are idiots. This doesn't help us dig into issues together. It's extremely hard to help someone when they're insulting your IQ instead of just providing a clear set of steps of what they're doing. I noticed you didn't insult the other forum members here? Why treat Cakewalk staff any differently? Why not just reply to person you were working with and let him know you think he's mistaken versus coming here and trying to humiliate him publicly without their knowledge?
 
Perhaps it's just me, but I'm actually having a hard time understanding the steps you specifically are taking and what your expectations are. I'm not saying there's not an issue here, it's just this entire thread feels a bit ambiguous to me. What synth are you using? What exact steps are you taking? What is your routing set up like? I'd like to know the exact context to put it in for the sake of being able to understand more accurately, not to be a pain.
 
I think perhaps what we should do is start over and redefine exactly what you're doing and exactly what isn't working. Also we should stop paraphrasing what support has or hasn't said. It's a bit misleading. If there's a bug, let's bug it up.
 
Edit for typos.

Well, I did bug it up - and it was rejected in hours(CWBRN number above).
With sample project and everything you need - with Dimension Pro VST x64 loaded as you would all have.

This was reply from support agent:
 
"Hello Lasse,

I've confirmed on our end that this text is specific to Direct X Plugins only in SONAR. We need to update our documentation to specify that. I'm guessing this what written when Direct X was the only plugin format that we supported in SONAR. I am sorry for the inconvenience.

Best regards,"
 
 
This was my reply to your support agent:
 
"Thank you.

But how do you do this then for VST instruments?
That would be interesting to know - I don't know why you left this out.

I mean - the real topic is that I want to do this kind routing from one midi clip to multiple synths to play unison?
And since it did not work as documented, I reported.

Do I have to put a separate support request to get this information?

Best regards
Lars"
 
Anything diminishing to your staff in there?
I don't think so.
 
My post here was a buildup of steam - since you don't get that.
You Cakewalk always go defensive - instead addressing the issues.
That's why issues remain over time.

The comments against staff I was referring to were in this thread not to them directly. No need to quote them each, it's besides the point. I defend my staff in support because despite your assumption, they're actually a MAJOR part in getting issues fixed. The CWBRNs, Fault Reporter, internal bug submissions, and just overall feedback all come from support. It's pretty important and has resulted in a lot of fixes for customers. I was sort of hoping that X3a, X3b, and X3c were a clear testament to how this type of interaction between customers and those of us on the front lines is so insanely important. The push for more maintenance releases didn't come from upper management...

Anyhow, I'll check out the CWBRN. Contact Tech Support never means "rejected". I spoke about that concept to the point of exhaustion very recently actually, it just means, "let's talk". I might actually just change the words to that to be honest (yay/nay ?).

I'm not trying to argue with you here. I'm trying to start over and get specifics. I'll dig into the CWBRN tomorrow and let you know if I need any clarification on anything.

I'm sorry things got the point were you were really frustrated with us.

Ryan Munnis [Cakewalk]
I'm not trying to argue with you here. I'm trying to start over and get specifics. I'll dig into the CWBRN tomorrow and let you know if I need any clarification on anything.

I'm sorry things got the point were you were really frustrated with us.

Thank you for being professional about it.
 
You have my attention - or anybody here that maybe state the issue more clear.
I'm no wonder-tutor pedagogue.
 
I just followed the help topic "Recording a softsynth's midi output".
 
And the subtopics
"To hear a soft synth's midi output through another track"
"To record a soft synth's midi output through another track"
 
Some connection internally in Sonar seems to be there - I made the following test.
a) the second midi track input has selected output from a midi out-synth
b) I go to synth rack - and disable midi out on this particular sending synth
c) input selection change to - none.
which means there is some routing recoqnized by Sonar.
 
But no actuall midi is handled.

Since routing is limited in Sonar it's very handy if this feature works.
 
Tiny feature request embedded:
Having sends also treat midi equally like Reaper would be swell.
Just adding sends(with midi) to other synth'si would easily play multiple in unison.
In Reaper you just drag-n-drop the I/O button to another track, and it's there.
But even doing this through buses in Sonar would be enough.
 
Thanks.

Ryan Munnis [Cakewalk

We have some very green support reps who jumped in at the busiest time possible and are trying to soak up as much as humanly possible. We're extremely dedicated to helping to make SONAR better and better and we haven't even revealed our full hand yet. We are a small team though, so from time to time we definitely do make mistakes.

You're not allowed to make mistakes. Ever. No one else here does 
 
Seriously, seems to me the major success of X3 has pros and cons. The con is that now a zillion people are beating it up and encountering issues, although I must say after looking through these threads that a lot of the issues are pilot error and/or unfamiliarity with a particular feature and have been solved. The pro is also that a zillion people are beating it up and encountering issues, so they can find things that might take a team of beta testers months to find, if ever. 
 
I really think the rapid pace of updates indicates the extent to which you take reports seriously, but there's no way your team is going to be able to fix everyone's favorite bug and/or feature enhancement in parallel. This kind of thing is a bit of a serial interface.
 
And I know you haven't revealed your full hand yet