• SONAR
  • Dumb & Simple Fix for Crackles with X3c (p.7)
2013/11/07 08:20:19
bobguitkillerleft
Anderton
So about 64-bit audio engines...here's my "I think I got this right" response.
 
My first digital audio experience was Sound Tools on a Mac Plus with a 16-bit audio engine. It didn't take much processing to overrun what 16 bits could calculate, and you could hear the result. On the bright side, you had a built-in fuzztone (whether you wanted it or not).
 
The original TDM bus was 24 bits of resolution in the I/O and it dithered every time it went back and forth to the bus. The native version of Pro Tools didn't have this limitation, which is why there were those Gearslutz-type threads on "Why does Pro Tools on my laptop sound better than my TDM system?"
 
IIRC some DAWs made an intermediate step to a 24-bit engine on the way to 32-bit float. Pro Tools was 48 bits fixed and is now 32-bit float.
 
When Sonar came out with the 64-bit engine, again IIRC, not all DAWs in use had made it to 32-bit floating point. Those that were still using older engines definitely sounded inferior if you were doing lots of calculations with lots of plug-ins, bouncing, etc. Sonar was ahead of the curve with the 64-bit engine, but over time, 32-bit float became standard and provided enough resolution for all practical purposes, so Sonar's lead was not as significant as it had been when the 64-bit engine was introduced. 
 
However, from a theoretical standpoint, 64-bit floating point is as good as it gets. Will you hear a difference compared to 32-bit floating point? Highly doubtful. But somewhere, someone is doing their 2,344th bounce using a reverb plug-in, and is hearing a difference...




Cool history lesson for an old newb like myself,and about the hex guitar,6 tracks 1 for each string,it makes me wonder if EVH ever did more with his Kramer "hex",though it featured on the song "Top Jimmy" on 1984 IIRC?
Cheers
Bob
2013/11/11 23:33:13
Soft Enerji
Well that made some very interesting reading. I wasn't really sure what the 64bit DPE was all about but I now have a basic understanding. I doubt it will affect a noob like myself but at least if I have any issues I'll be able to try some stuff before I jump on here begging for answers................
2013/11/12 00:40:56
Paul P
bobguitkillerleft
 
One of the things that made me pick Sonar,was cakewalks 64 bit capability,but now we're being told to uncheck the "64 bit double precision engine"????
 
I do hope this just temporary,as although at 2 1/2 years with computers total,I definitely still consider myself to be a newb with "all things digital".
 




I'd be very surprised if you couldn't turn it back on with X3d   (and then forget about it).
2013/11/12 01:10:05
Andrew Rossa
Paul P
bobguitkillerleft
 
One of the things that made me pick Sonar,was cakewalks 64 bit capability,but now we're being told to uncheck the "64 bit double precision engine"????
 
I do hope this just temporary,as although at 2 1/2 years with computers total,I definitely still consider myself to be a newb with "all things digital".
 




I'd be very surprised if you couldn't turn it back on with X3d   (and then forget about it).




My understanding is it will be fixed so this is temp workaround. 
2013/11/12 10:00:10
AT
The 64 bit question.
 
A 64-bit operating system for the computer is one thing - most new ones come w/ it.  If the OS is 64-bit, use SONAR's 64 bit version.
 
The 64-bit engine within SONAR (engaged with the little button in Options>) basically upsamples the processing.  Can you hear the difference between 32 and 64 bits?  Probably not.  It allows for less rounding errors in the processing, so there might be less ring in a reverb or similiar lack of artifacts, but it will be extemely small. However, in the old days (which weren't always so good) a lot of the better effects did internal upsampling.  This was in the 16 or 24 bit world, and this helped expensive 3rd party effects get a good reputation.
 
many of us use 24 bits to capture - which is what an interface can do.  It is stored as 32 bits (that is what many of us use, anyway).  However, when you engage the 64-bit engine all the mixing and effects are done at 64 bit.  It works for me (and others on the forum when we have had this conversation).  In the old days that would have choked a single processor.  Today, mulitple processors do the math easily.  My old double chip computer worked fine w/ the 64 bit engine.
 
Personally, I haven't noticed any problems w/ the 64-bit engine engaged.  But here at home I usually don't run big projects and even if my projects have a lot of soft synths I ususally freeze them and archive the synths themselves so I can chop and dice the audio only.  So if you are having dropouts/clicks etc. w/ X3 turn the 64 bit engine off.  At least until Cake gets a fix.  As said above, I doubt you'll hear a difference, even when it gets fixed.  But up until now ... why not use the better engine?  And after it gets fixed, why not?  Something about removing the grain of sound out of the eye of your reverb ;-)
 
@
2013/11/18 22:21:20
Goddard
For an explanation of why a 64-bit dpe is deemed critical when mixing 24-bit pcm streams:
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9EeW9WhNWA
 
2013/11/18 22:30:11
Keni
I guess I'm one of the lucky few...Running at 256 with 64bit engine checked and no dropouts or other relics....
 
Gotta be lucky at something, right?
 
Keni
 
2013/11/19 04:30:16
Bristol_Jonesey
Likewise here Keni.
 
I checked on both computers last night, having digested the content of this and other related threads, and my settings are the same as yours.
2013/11/19 12:14:46
Paul P
 
And you're both using Console Emulation on mono tracks ?
 
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