LIKE

How the heck are the plugs in X3 "limited"?
 
Addictive Drums is the full version and top shelf gear.
 
TH2 Sonar/Producer isn't the full version but more than enough to get great guitar sounds and is WAY better than GR4 Sonar.
 
Melodyne Essentials is the SAME as the one released by Celemony and integrated into the program. The editor version costs WAY more than the upgrade to Producer does.
 
The Blue Tubes bundle from what I can tell from the promo vids are fully functional.
 
All the Prochannel modules are full versions and extremely useful.
 
Breverb Sonar isn't the full version but as with TH2 is still extremely comprehensive for most people's needs.
 
All the Sonitus plugs are still there.
 
All the other fancy Cake tools and synths are there.
 
You can import the old included plugs like R-Mix, GR4, etc into X3.
 
I've taken issue with the value of the DAW being tied to superfluous additions of extras at the potential expense of the DAW itself but X3 seems to most definitely be the definitive correction and maturation of the X series and Sonar brand in general but to say the included tools are somehow limited is... well completely inaccurate.
 
Even through all my whinging, moaning and foot stomping I never ONCE said that this bundle of effects, instruments and various other tools were somehow crippled, inadequate or overpriced. You have to look at it as a newcomer. Perhaps if you have a huge toolkit as it is these things may seem unnecessary but if you were starting fresh the current Producer package has literally EVERYTHING you could possibly need to get a quality final product. EVERYTHING.
 
Even when I bought the Production Suite I thought I was getting a brutal amount of tools to work with. Turned out there were a few things that could have been better for me personally but those extras cost me quite a bit of money to acquire. With X3? Naw, man. There isn't anything to hold you back if you put your noodle into it.
 
The one and only thing I find odd... and have always found odd... is the lack of a stereo field analyzer. Such a simple thing that is free everywhere but Cake hasn't devised/included one yet. Easily resolved through third party freebies but to me that really is the only thing missing at this point as far as I can tell.

while I agree that the bang for buck is great for a user who doesn't have many 3rd party plugs already, I think the bundled stuff distracts from the daw itself

It sounds like you are simply greedy.  Most of the lite versions have value.  Plenty of people purchase melodyne single track on their own who don't own Sonar for full retail value. Do you really expect them to GIVE you a $350 for your $150 upgrade?  The retail cost of Addictive drums  and Meldoyne alone is far more than what Sonar is asking for upgrade.

i would rather they bundled less & lowered the price

Actually, Cakewalk is going in the opposite direction of what the OP thinks. Addictive Drums ($150) is a full version. The Nomad Factory bundle ($199) is a full version. Melodyne Essential is in the Celemony product line and sells for $99. Granted it only works with monophonic tracks, but as most people will likely be using it for vocal pitch correction, providing the full version would have raised the price considerably and would probably have been overkill for most people. Furthermore it replaces V-Vocal, which was also monophonic.
 
So if you add those up, Cakewalk has managed to score a GREAT deal for users. $450 worth of stuff in a $499 program...not bad!! And then you have all the other updates, like VST3 support. I think X3 Producer is a helluva deal.
 
If someone already had Addictive Drums, the Blue Tubes bundle, and the full version of Melodyne, then it's not such a good deal. But such a person is probably a pro user, in which case a $149 upgrade for all the other features is still worth the money.
 
I think the reason why X3 is meeting such success/approval is precisely because it's not only a mature and stable product, but it represents extraordinary value.

lawp
i would rather they bundled less & lowered the price

You probably have more than your share of plugins, but think of the people that are just getting started and with a lot less money to buy these things.
 
A regular DAW retails in or around  400 euro. You only pay 134 euro and you want to pay less, because you have more plugins and still want to lower the price?
 
I wonder what all the bakers who have spent hours,days, weeks,months,and sometimes years to create the quality they have brought out in X3 and you want it cheaper?
 
Shame on you.

i think sonar's worth $149 for the upgrade without the extras, like anderton said above, but if adding the extras increases the end cost i would rather they didn't add them
hth

I guess I need to clarify my post a bit.
 
#1.  From a quality and useful piece of software perspective you will never find a bigger Sonar supporter.  I was taking money away from pro tool studios around here with my little Cakewalk based studio in back in 1999.  I have always preferred and staunchly stood by my "toy" software as some of my professional peers would say back in the day.   PT's uber-expensive hardware integration was the only thing sonic that PT had on Cakewalk back then and I always had decent interfaces and pres so the so that was a moot point.

Fast forward to recent days where you no longer need proprietary hardware and I now have a version of PT.  Still hate it, think it is overly complicated and it just sits idle and is only there so when people ask, "Yes I have PT" is my response. 

My point is in X2, the Overloud stuff really did give you just enough functionality that you could discover you needed more.  The Pro Chanel plugs are good, but the best tools for the Pro Chan has to be bought after the fact (CA2A).  I know the new trend in marketing is to give a decent initial software solution for a reasonable price with the plan to sell additional content and functionality on an ongoing basis.  It felt like Sonar had not adopted that model based on 8.5 and X1.  If you had software that came bundled, it was the full blown thing.  I do suppose that it was not third party software as much so that may be the difference.  I was simply musing and lamenting over the new state of marketing.  It does contain at least an element of bait and switch.

My biggest question for X3 has pretty much been answered:  "Is the version of Melodyne that comes with X3 useful as is?"  (thanks gswitz)  Honestly, that and the comp tools are the only reason I would upgrade from 2 to 3 right this moment.  I have a bass soloist doing the vocals for his album and in his really low stuff, (B and below) he is having a tough time holding solid pitch on anything he is supposed to sustain.  So far V-Vocal and Autotune are giving me mixed results that are less than subtle.  I have the original version of Autotune and I am trying to decide whether to drop the bucks on AT-7 or just try Melodyne and get the comping tools to boot.  (also useful on this project)

I think I will try it as $149 for something I am already a fan of is better than risking $399 on upgrading software that is single function and may not help this particular situation.

lawp
while I agree that the bang for buck is great for a user who doesn't have many 3rd party plugs already, I think the bundled stuff distracts from the daw itself

That was indeed my main concern with this release but by all reports the DAW itself got some serious attention and the Bakers seem to have been let off their leashes to actually do their jobs. X2 had some great ideas implemented but came off half baked and unsupported. This seems to have been corrected so you've got what seems to be the best of not only two worlds but multiple worlds. A hyper modern DAW (which Sonar seems to have always been but at the sacrifice of stability and in some cases intuitiveness), a move toward stability and refining workflow (which solves the problems associated with being hyper modern and is making more intelligent use of the new features/methods) AND a metric buttload of tools that are by no means crippled as OP suggests.
 
I have yet to test X3 myself but have made absolutely sure to comb this forum day in and day out and ask other users about their experiences and whether they relate to my personal issues with X2/X1. It all seems quite positive. There have also been multiple patches with more to come, the bakers are on site again dealing with problems and taking reports, the wall of silence has been lifted.
 
And something that I think gets overlooked but it certainly stands out to me is Mr Anderton coming on here and acknowledging limitations and other issues and offering solutions and implications that these things are going to be looked at instead of simply spewing marketing jargon or remaining silent. That's unheard of these days in a world of shameless corporate plugging and obfuscation. The guy knows WTF he's talking about, seems to love the program as much as even the most hardcore users do AND is in a position to actually make a difference. That's a very good sign IMO.
 
I was starting to think I may have made another one of my bad timing decisions due to the Roland shenanigans and the X2 weirdness but now? I think it's quite possible the Beepster has finally caught the front end of a tidal wave forming out at sea and I hope to surf that bugger to shore.
 
Now I think it is up to Gibson to properly fund the company and allow the boys the freedom to do their jobs. As far as I'm concerned it is all up to them. They could indeed have top dog status in the DAW market if they are willing to sink some cash into this.
 
Whatever. It's just nice to have some hope again. Keep fighting Cake. This is why I took a chance with you guys and I'm happy to see how this is playing out.