Danny Danzi

spacey
Now I'm hoping X3c and my computer will last long enough before everything
changes again to let me record a few tunes...that will pobably suck.
Well...at least my computer skills are getting better. Maybe I should be like FBB and
record that. ;)

A bit off topic here, but since you mentioned this, I just had to chime in here. My apologies ahead of time for the topic drift.
 
Just do what I do Spacey....put a good version of Sonar on your machine, and if you decide you want the newer stuff, put it on a little pc that doesn't matter too much.
 
I have this little get together with all the engineers in my area once per month at a bar for drinks and food. It's really cool as we get to share secrets, bond, bust on each other, and of course, talk shop in ways we can't talk to anyone else. I opened up the floor with "do you all think we are losers for buying into hype and being current?"
 
This opened up one of the best discussions we ever had in all the years we've been doing this. Everyone at this table (there were 10 of us this night) agreed that we're losers and deter our own progress just because we have this passion and excitement to buy the latest and greatest stuff all the time. Here are the things that were said:
 
It's like our options have options that have options that have options. By the time you get all that stuff organized and working for YOU in YOUR work-flow, the tables turn....you're searching for drivers, your go to plugs no longer work right, you're experiencing crashes, you can't load old projects in this new software, the software has abandoned things that worked for 15 years, the program is over-kill, you're forced to re-learn an entire DAW....wow, what a time waster "just to be current". Are we fricken' nuts?
 
This isn't just in regards to Sonar. We got the latest MAC users with PT and Logic crying, Cubase dudes, Presonus...the list goes on and on. So at the end of the conversation, we were all in agreement. None of us will purchase anything more unless it sincerely blows our doors off. We will not purchase new DAW software and put it on our real recording machines. If we do, it goes on a box we don't care about. This way we can learn about the new system if we choose to....and we can experience the new stuff in a stress free environment. If we find issues that annoy us...you lose on that release unless you feel like trying to resolve them or wait for patches.
 
If you don't find issues, you decide whether or not to install on your good machine. Me personally? I have 8.5 and X1 on my good boxes with X2 and X3 on my secondary recording boxes. I've never really been an X2 fan, but seem to like most of X3. It seems to be working really well on my secondary recording box at the moment and may graduate to the good box this weekend. The whole plugin debacle scares me with X3, but it seems to have been taken care of (at least for me) with the C patch. A and b caused a few issues there for me...but I expected this due to VST3 and the other growing pains we may have experienced.
 
But if I can be honest....from a business owner standpoint, it really hasn't paid for me to be current in anything other than upgrading to Windows 7 which is of course old and dated already. Though I had no problems with XP, 7 obliterates it. With computer audio, when you get something working right, I really and sincerely feel it's best to leave a well-oiled machine alone. For those that like to tweak and work on this stuff spending countless hours troubleshooting, may God bless you. For those of us who have to make a living from this, it can become one of the worst time consuming and frustrating endeavors known to man....all because we get so excited, we gotta buy. It's almost better to not have the money to buy this stuff in certain situations. I got a client that has so many plugins, his uterus fell out. LOL! He uses just about none of them....talk about a spending fetish. Get a good pc...put on a good version of a DAW you know works, add your plugs, make music. Current in my opinion, is way over-rated.
 
-Danny

If X2 was your main DAW but they left too many bugs in it would you upgrade to get bug fixes?

DOS 3.5" disk Twelve Tone Systems.
 
FABULOUS to have midi sequencing available at that time.  I also had a 4-track tape deck, and grand designs on exploding onto the music scene.  Turns out I never found the fuse to light it, but have had a blast anyways, over the decades.
 
Currently loving X3b - holding off on the C update until likely the weekend.
 
Bob Bone
 

Cakewalk 7 was my beginning with Twelve Tone Systems.
Before that I was an exclusive Amiga user on Bars and Pipes and synching to tape recorders.

Up to when I retired at X1d i would only have one studio PC. Annual upgrades went on to a quarantine machine where I could experiment to my hearts content. Only after a considerable amount of testing did it go onto my studio production PC. Because of time constraints quite a few Sonar versions never made it out of quarantine so to speak. I still used each version but never for mission critical work.

I love to be on the bleeding edge but there's a cost in money and time. The changing workflow with each new version, even doing it the way I did, can be a big distraction and time waster.

Pro audio 2 - Digital Audio Labs CardD Plus...   Can't remember the midi interface though.  I had a Korg DSS, DSM and T3.   Ran that stuff into a Tascam 2524 board, it had midi control too and I thought I was in heaven.   Dropped the output for archiving into a DAT 8mm tape.  Then added Tascam DA88's with the optional sync \ midi cards..  I still have those old decks.  I saw a few 88's in production, back stage just a few years ago.  Keeping them to remind me of just how far DAW has come.    
 
 

Guitar Tracks Pro, 1998.
 
Funny thing is... 5 or so years ago I said something to the effect of "I will always support CW because of their customer support, software goals, and this forum."... then someone threw a rock at me for saying that (ouch).
 
I am still here!
 
Since Danny diverted, let me chuck in a little aside as well... Several years ago I interviewed with a CEO and somehow we got on the topic of efficient coding... and I told him "If I was going to steal a programmer with that in mind, I would get one from CW." He diligently scribbled down the name and I chuckled. When he asked why I simply replied, "If you are going to take that seriously, best of luck to you... those guys LOVE what they do."

WinCake 1 for Windows 3.1 (1992), back in the CompuServe BBS days.

Guitar Studio 2 was my intro to the Cakewalk/DAW world.
 

Despite having been a musician since forever and making a living for a while 'back in the day,' I didn't get into MIDI and DAW type stuff until very late.
 
I started using Cakewalk with 4 LE which came with an EMU-0404 card I bought sometime in the mid-2000s. It also came with a version of Cubase which I tried, but for whatever reason, I just clicked with Cakewalk.
 

Danny DanziSo at the end of the conversation, we were all in agreement. None of us will purchase anything more unless it sincerely blows our doors off.

Yup, I agree. I didn't upgrade 4 LE until 8.5 came along. I liked the look of X1, so I upgraded again. But I didn't see enough new-and-exciting in X2 for my taste, so I waited. I fell for X3, however, hook, line, sinker and copy of Angling Times, to quote the Dwarf droid.

vintagevibe
If X2 was your main DAW but they left too many bugs in it would you upgrade to get bug fixes?

I'll be impaled for this vintage, but no, I would not. As a matter of fact, as soon as that happens with a company with me, I leave them. That said, I might rethink that only because of how cool the bakers have been to anyone that approaches them like a human being. If you have tried tech support and you have tried email and bug reports etc and you are still unhappy, I'd try and talk to one of the accessible bakers you see on the forum if you can. I know that may not fix bugs, but you never know where the solid communication may land you.
 
I say that due to my own negligence. I like to think I know my way around Sonar pretty good. Many times I thought something was a bug....actually, I was POSITIVE it was a bug and it was pilot error. I'm not saying that's true in your case as I know several have complained about features not working right in X2. But honest when I tell you, it may not hurt to try talking to someone like Noel, Seth, Andrew, Daniel, Dan or Ryan. You just never know man...seriously. So though I'd definitely be upset, I'd see what could be done first before I jump ship. With any other DAW manufacturer, I probably wouldn't be as lenient.
 
-Danny

Danny's earlier post is spot on, I think. The bleeding edge is a great place to be if what you're trying to do is tinker with computers. Nothing wrong with that, but it's no place for an engineer trying to get stuff done.