Another update: So I just tried multiple things to answer my own questions.
 
First off using the channels Stereo Interleave buttons will NOT result in a a mono track but selecting MONO in the Bounce to Track dialog will. Still I don't think that's what the bFD manual was referring to but the resulting tracks don't sound fracked upon first listen so whatever.
 
Second I tried selecting just the kick and snare as a test to seen if they would both bounce at the same time using the same performance being created by BFD. I had to deselect Fast Bounce in the Bounce to Tracks dialog to actually see if Sonar was doing multiple passes. It only did one pass and created audio tracks for both in that single pass. This is a relief.
 
Now I just need to figure out how to separate my cymbals and toms without causing too much phasing netween the Room and Overhead mics. This is exactly why I need the full version of BFD. I just didn't realize how badly I did need it until putting this type of thing into practice. Hopefully it won't bee too much of a problem but even still I can just do a bulk tom/cymbal channel method and/or make use of the aux and perc outs to gain an extra three outs... but that still leaves me with a couple pieces grouped.
 
Ouch... my brain.
 
Below are the original questions for anyone that is curious but I think I've got it under control. Thanks for the input as always.
 
First I neglected to mention I am using BFD Eco... not the full version so I have limited outputs and internal options.
 
I've left the original question intact below and will just set the levels to peak just below 0db but Funkybot made me aware that while bouncing BFD multi out audio that Sonar may replay the MIDI performance each time resulting in different velocities which will screw up the relation between Overhead and Room tracks in relation to the close mic'd tracks.
 
New Question: If I multi select the tracks will Sonar use the same performance on each track for the bounce or will it do a new playback through the synth for each? I would prefer to keep Anti Machine Gun mode in BFD active if possible. Even without it though I'm concerned the performances will not be EXACT.
 
This is the original question which may be ignore but if others want to provide insight on it as well I'm all ears. More concerned about this multiple MIDI performance issue causing phasing problems at this point:
 
So as usual I've probably over thought all this but now that I've made my little MIDI edits to the drum tracks I'm ready to bounce each kit piece (and a bunch of combo tracks like "all toms" and "all cymbals" just so I can trying different mixing approaches).
 
I have done numerous playbacks watching the BFD mixer and making sure nothing exceeds 0db. Nothing clips if I let it go over that but I'm looking at it as an input signal so I'm just following what I think is the proper method and getting it as loud as possible without letting it broach that barrier.
 
 
In Sonar's console I have the tracks using the RMS+Peak combo meters. This is where I'm a little... uh... not sure. I want to allow plenty of headroom which I figure -12db is about right but because technically this is an input being recorded I'm not sure if that applies.
 
So in the Sonar Console should I allow for the -12db or should I do what I did in BFD and allow it to bounce at just below 0db and give myself headroom in the mixing stage?
 
Really this is more a question about input levels I guess and should be in the Techniques forum but I figure I'd get a quicker answer here. Normally when recording my guitar or a mic I'd set it so the input is approaching 0db to get the best signal and I'm wondering if that is how I should treat input from BFD as well or if I should allow plenty of headroom?
 
This probably doesn't matter as it is difficult to clip this stuff and lower levels don't seem to cause degradation anyway. Just trying to develop good habits and protocols to use in the future. That way even if I can do things differently I have at least one known effective path to take in most situations.
 
Thanks.

Okay... I probably over complicated my OP (as usual).
 
Simplified...
 
Before I bounce my BFD tracks to audio should I leave headroom on the individual track channels (-12db is generally what I shoot for when I gain stage) or should I set my levels to be as loud as possible without exceeding 0db like I would with a vocal or guitar input? I am bouncing each track individually. Not creating a full drum mix.
 
Cheers.

I'm sure some of the more savvy pros will chime in with a more definitive answer, but typically I only worry about headroom on my master bus when mixing down, leaving headroom for mastering, etc. 
 
When recording input signals, I typically try to get as close to 0 without clipping as possible to maximize dynamic range of a mic, etc.  Since you're bouncing tracks that are already recorded - I would think dynamic range wouldn't be an issue, so I'd just ensure it's not clipping before the transfer.
Russ
 

Beepster
Okay... I probably over complicated my OP (as usual).
 
Simplified...
 
Before I bounce my BFD tracks to audio should I leave headroom on the individual track channels (-12db is generally what I shoot for when I gain stage) or should I set my levels to be as loud as possible without exceeding 0db like I would with a vocal or guitar input? I am bouncing each track individually. Not creating a full drum mix.
 
Cheers.

So your trying to freeze your multi-output drum tracks in BFD2, to multi-output tracks in Sonar? Example: you want a kick in channel, a kick out channel, etc.?
 
If so, I'd suggest:
 
1. Turn down the master gain knob in BFD2 to leave yourself headroom, this will simulate recording at lower volume.
2. Instead of bouncing BFD2 in Sonar, consider bringing the MIDI into BFD2 and exporting to audio from there
3. Import the exported BFD2 audio into Sonar
 
Why? BFD2's AMG (anti-machine gun) mode introduces some level of velocity randomization with each playback. Sonar, will do 1 bounce for each track of audio. So if you're bouncing 13 separate drum tracks, Sonar will do 13 separate bounces instead of 1. When this happens, BFD2's AMG mode could potentially trigger a different sample at each pass. This could lead to Snare29.wav being triggered in the Snare Top channel, while Snare28.wav gets triggered in the Snare Bottom channel, creating a phasing like problem.
 
If you export out of BFD2, it will export all tracks in a single pass, making this a non-issue. Ideally, Sonar would 1) only do a single bounce/pass regardless of the number of channels being bounced, 2) allow you to route VSTi outputs to audio track inputs and record them in realtime, both of which would prevent the issues with randomization and multiple passes.
 
If you're only looking to do a stereo bounce of your entire drum mix, then it's also a non-issue and I'd just suggest turning down the master gain in BFD2 and bouncing in Sonar. I do it all the time.

I like to mix for levels, (meaning set the balance) in the BDF 2 mixer. I keep the separate tracks in Sonar at unity. This means the levels in the mixer in BDF2 very. I do not try for a specific dB but rather a balanced mix. When that is done I shouldn't have to do much to the levels in Sonar. I let them fall where they will.  

karma1959
I'm sure some of the more savvy pros will chime in with a more definitive answer, but typically I only worry about headroom on my master bus when mixing down, leaving headroom for mastering, etc. 
 
When recording input signals, I typically try to get as close to 0 without clipping as possible to maximize dynamic range of a mic, etc.  Since you're bouncing tracks that are already recorded - I would think dynamic range wouldn't be an issue, so I'd just ensure it's not clipping before the transfer.
Russ
 

The more I think about it the more I realize that using -12 is silly because I wouldn't do that when recording live drums. I've just been looking at too much info on "post" production gain staging and applying it to what, technically, is an input record scenario... kind of... I guess...
 
However this next post poses a whole NEW set of questions that I had not even CONSIDERED... oi!
 

Funkybot

Beepster
Okay... I probably over complicated my OP (as usual).
 
Simplified...
 
Before I bounce my BFD tracks to audio should I leave headroom on the individual track channels (-12db is generally what I shoot for when I gain stage) or should I set my levels to be as loud as possible without exceeding 0db like I would with a vocal or guitar input? I am bouncing each track individually. Not creating a full drum mix.
 
Cheers.

So your trying to freeze your multi-output drum tracks in BFD2, to multi-output tracks in Sonar? Example: you want a kick in channel, a kick out channel, etc.?
 
If so, I'd suggest:
 
1. Turn down the master gain knob in BFD2 to leave yourself headroom, this will simulate recording at lower volume.
2. Instead of bouncing BFD2 in Sonar, consider bringing the MIDI into BFD2 and exporting to audio from there
3. Import the exported BFD2 audio into Sonar
 
Why? BFD2's AMG (anti-machine gun) mode introduces some level of velocity randomization with each playback. Sonar, will do 1 bounce for each track of audio. So if you're bouncing 13 separate drum tracks, Sonar will do 13 separate bounces instead of 1. When this happens, BFD2's AMG mode could potentially trigger a different sample at each pass. This could lead to Snare29.wav being triggered in the Snare Top channel, while Snare28.wav gets triggered in the Snare Bottom channel, creating a phasing like problem.
 
If you export out of BFD2, it will export all tracks in a single pass, making this a non-issue. Ideally, Sonar would 1) only do a single bounce/pass regardless of the number of channels being bounced, 2) allow you to route VSTi outputs to audio track inputs and record them in realtime, both of which would prevent the issues with randomization and multiple passes.
 
If you're only looking to do a stereo bounce of your entire drum mix, then it's also a non-issue and I'd just suggest turning down the master gain in BFD2 and bouncing in Sonar. I do it all the time.

Thank you for you're very detailed response and it brings up SO many new questions and concerns regarding this type of bounce.
 
First I am actually on BFD Eco so I don't get some of the fancier routing features or internal doodads BFD2 does.
 
I had not even once considered the fact that the different velocities of the different channels during bouncing might cause weirdness. This adds a whole new dimension to how I'm looking at this.
 
What I was going to do because of the limited output count of Eco is separate my individual toms and cymbals by cloning the tom/cymbal outputs within Sonar then doing multiple passes of the bounce soloing the specific kit piece I want for that track and muting the rest (eg: All toms routed through the Tom output bus in BFD then sequentially bouncing Hi-Tom soloed, then hi mid tom- soloed and so on). But now, and you are correct, if I do it this way I will get a different performance from the synth on each pass thus giving a different performance than my OH and Room mic performances as well as messing up any other cross bleed applied by the synth.
 
Wow... okay, I'm not sure how to deal with this and I'm pretty certain I cannot perform the internal bounces in BFD like you suggested within Eco.
 
Well ain't this a dilly of a pickle. lol
 
Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I'm sure any variances won't be TOO problematic for this as it's just something I'm doing to test out my mixing skills but I definitely have to find a solution before working on any material I intend to release.
 
Another issue I'm having, and I was about to do some tests, is the Stereo Output problem of individual MONO kit pieces to Sonar (this is mentioned in the BFD manual as a specific problem in Sonar and eludes to beaing able to fix it manually but does not describe how). I was going to try just setting the audio channels within Sonar to mono using the tracks interleave buttons and seeing if that gave me a mono wave on each track.
 
This interplay between drum synth and host really is quite complicated isn't it?
 
Thought I had it nailed. :-/

And another simple question.
 
When doing a bounce like this if I multi select the audio tracks for bounce will they ALL use the same performance or will Sonar do a separate pass for each channel?
 
I really need it to capture ONE performance for at least the main parts of the kit so the bulk of my close mic'd sound match the room and overhead channels.
 
Frankly it'd be pretty annoying if Sonar didn't allow for this. It is just begging for phase and other issues as Funkybot pointed out.
 

Beepster
And another simple question.
 
When doing a bounce like this if I multi select the audio tracks for bounce will they ALL use the same performance or will Sonar do a separate pass for each channel?
 
I really need it to capture ONE performance for at least the main parts of the kit so the bulk of my close mic'd sound match the room and overhead channels.
 
Frankly it'd be pretty annoying if Sonar didn't allow for this. It is just begging for phase and other issues as Funkybot pointed out.
 

Sonar will do separate bounces for each channel. It's a pet peeve of mine.
 
I didn't know you had ECO, that certainly limits the export options. BUT, if you have Reaper (or Studio One), a workaround is to 1) export the drum track's MIDI file from Sonar and open it in Reaper, 2) load up BFD ECO and have it play that MIDI file, 3) record the VSTi output in Realtime to independent audio tracks in Reaper, 4) import those audio tracks into Sonar.
 
Also, as an easier alternative, you can turn off Anti-Machine Gun mode. Just make sure you have enough velocity changes programmed into the MIDI, and give the drum performance a few good listens first. This way, there's no randomization to worry about.

Funkybot

Beepster
And another simple question.
 
When doing a bounce like this if I multi select the audio tracks for bounce will they ALL use the same performance or will Sonar do a separate pass for each channel?
 
I really need it to capture ONE performance for at least the main parts of the kit so the bulk of my close mic'd sound match the room and overhead channels.
 
Frankly it'd be pretty annoying if Sonar didn't allow for this. It is just begging for phase and other issues as Funkybot pointed out.
 

Sonar will do separate bounces for each channel. It's a pet peeve of mine.
 
I didn't know you had ECO, that certainly limits the export options. BUT, if you have Reaper (or Studio One), a workaround is to 1) export the drum track's MIDI file from Sonar and open it in Reaper, 2) load up BFD ECO and have it play that MIDI file, 3) record the VSTi output in Realtime to independent audio tracks in Reaper, 4) import those audio tracks into Sonar.
 
Also, as an easier alternative, you can turn off Anti-Machine Gun mode. Just make sure you have enough velocity changes programmed into the MIDI, and give the drum performance a few good listens first. This way, there's no randomization to worry about.

I had considered turning of Anti Machine Gun mode as an alternative but didn't feel like going back and messing with the velocities (I did input this live with a controller but my hats and other parts were mostly hitting 127 so it was a little robotic and the AMG setting helped).
 
However I did do a test of the multi track bounce and Sonar only did one pass. I watched it play through the song with Fast Bounce disabled and as far as I can tell it "recorded" both tracks at the same time. I updated my OP to reflect that. Still though your post brought up some very important concepts that I had not considered and I am now taking a second look at my routing and bleed settings in BFD. I think it will be best if I use the Aux outputs for my Ride and one of the two crash cymbals (leaving the remaining crash set to output through the Cymbals output channel). That way I can control those independently but still have the same performance as in the OH and Room tracks. I'm going to just assume that cymbals will cause more phase issues than toms will if using a separate performance. Then for the toms I'll just let them all output through the bulk tom channel (after leveling them a bit in BFD) then rebounce them one by one to provide myself with some helper tracks that hopefully won't cause any major phase issues with the Room/OH channels.
 
More thinking out loud at this point but you definitely saved my arse from making a big mistake. Thank you very much.

Oh and in regards to turning off Anti Machine Gun mode... will that for CERTAIN create exact duplicates to match the OH and Room tracks? I was under the impression that even using the exact same MIDI input that synths can produce variations between performances. This is why I thought some people Freeze their tracks to avoid variations before starting mixing.
 
Cheers.