• SONAR
  • Record without metronome, quantize later (p.2)
2013/10/31 18:03:19
dantarbill
overdub
I have an older Cakewalk project on which I used an analog drum machine, which was ok for what it did...




That will probably be an excellent learning experience for the "Set Measure/Beat At Now" gambit (#3) that brundlefly mentioned.  The drum machine might drift...but not by much...so it should be pretty easy.  It is a skill that you'll want later!
 
I was in a situation with a client, where it was pretty obvious that putting him under headphones with a click wasn't going to give us what we were after.  (I even resisted the temptation to make him use a guitar that didn't have 10 year old strings on it.)  His timing was all over the place...but I was able to put together a tempo map (a measure at a time) that made everything else lock to him (including MIDI stuff).
 
It was a lot of work.
 
The end result was worth it...but...it was still a lot of work.
2013/10/31 20:08:55
brundlefly
overdub
But if you wouldn't mind outlining the steps for me, I'd sure appreciate it.  I may just take a little time and do some experimenting with it myself.  I usually learn things better when I have to dig for the answers or solutions.



Okay; you asked for it. 
 
The following is from an earlier post with some updates and parenthetical notes that might apply to your case. The way I do this is always evolving in small ways to accommodate different situations, but this is still generally applicable. Note that this was originally aimed at aligning a project to a single imported MIDI clip but the tabbing to transients in an audio track works pretty much like tabbing to MIDI events, and it's not necessary to show transient markers in order for the tab function to work.
 
The main thing to understand is that Set Measure/Beat At Now is basically telling SONAR to set the previous tempo to make the specified Measure and Beat of the timeline fall on the absolute time at the current Now cursor location: the playback of audio is not affected, and MIDI event start times and durations are adjusted automatically so that they also play back with the same timing rather than following the tempo changes. You're effectively stretching/compressing the timeline to fit the existing playback timing.
 
1. Drag the clip to align the first event wherever it should be in the timeline.
 
2. If that time is not 1:01:000, use Set Measure/Beat At Now (Shift+M) to "pin" that first beat so that becomes the reference point for determining tempo.
 
3. Count out several measures listening to the clip (or go to the last event if the clip is short) set the Now time at the beginning of that event by tabbing to it, and use Shift+M again to set the correct measure and beat in the timeline to the absolute time of that event (i.e. "Now".
 
4.SONAR will alter the tempo at the first point you pinned to make the timeline match the clip without altering the playback timing of the clip (or any other clip in the project), and add a like tempo value at the beat you set as a refererence for setting subsequent beats.
 
5. If the clip was recorded to a click, and/or was quantized, that may be all you need to do; if not, you can set additional beats every few measures or every measure, or even within measures or beats (note that fractional beats are entered as decimal values not ticks, so 02:480 is 02.500).
 
6. If the clip didn't start at 1:01:000, go to the tempo view, and change the tempo at 1:01:000 to match the first tempo SONAR inserted  (this gets trickier in a project with mixed MIDI and audio and where audio doesn't start at 1:01:000.
 
That's about it. For a very long clip, I recommend setting the first point at 8 measures or so to see what beat the last event should fall on. Then undo the 8-measure set point, and set that last event to establish an overall average tempo, and roughly align the whole clip so that it's easy to see what beats other events should fall on in the middle of the clip, and decided how many you need to snap to tighten up the timeline match. Setting the first 8 measures is just an interim step to figure out how long the clip is without listening and counting 100+ measures or whatever it is.
 
See.. easier done than said.   You might actually find that a single tempo precisely matching the original drum machine tempo and starting at 1:01:000 does the trick, rendering all this extra detail superfluous. 
 
Cheers,
Dave
2013/11/03 17:37:14
overdub
Hey Dave,
 
Thanks for the detailed procedure!  What you've described is pretty much how I imagined it would go so I'm guessing it'll be easy once I get the hang of going through it without disrupting work flow.  I haven't had a chance to try it out yet but once I do I'll report back on this thread.
I can't help but wonder if Melodyne Editor might be useful in the same way as fit to... Not that fit to... needs any help to map beats.  But Melodyne might be preferable for mapping audio to beats, right?  As in a more sophisticated 'snap to' or v-vocal?
After all the years, practically since the birth of Twelve Tone Systems/Cakewakl, I still don't have a lot of experience using the most incredible of all the tools I've had available.  In other words, I've mostly stuck to recording/mixing straight audio and some MIDI and virtual instruments.  It's all the stretching and compressing and filtering and other 'magical' tools I'm needing/wanting to understand better and how to use efficiently and effectively.  So, I want to dedicate blocks of time to doing just that...rather than try half-halfheartedly and being distracted by the technology while, at the same time, needing to be creative, fast and fruitful.  Having just upgraded to Editor, I know now that I have a lot of practicing to do in the coming weeks...years.
 
Looks like I'm babbling now...so, thanks again, Dave.
 
Dub
 
2013/11/03 19:31:24
brundlefly
Sounds good, Dub. I enjoy messing around with the tools so I've actually spent more time getting to know Audiosnap than I really needed to given that most of my music originates as MIDI recordings. But it's always good to put in some time experimenting with the tools so you're not flailing around when you *do* need to use them "in anger".
 
As far as Melodyne goes, my initial impression is that Audiosnap is at least as good, and possibly better at locating transients, and it offers many tools for working with transient marker locations, including the tab-to-transient function so I would tend to prefer it over Melodyne for this task. But I'm sure some of that preference has to do with my familiarity with it. 
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