soens

Grumpy Cat always makes me laugh!!! This forum is Awesome!!!

I think Scott Garrigus has the right idea.  A quality release like X3 lifts everybody's mood.  This is the first time I've spent a lot of time here since the 8.5 days.  Speaking just for me personally, Sonar is fun again for the first time since then.  Comping, Melodyne, and Addictive Drums make me want to use the software and hang around here and learn.  This place is still the best place for that!
 
Note:  just realized I have to update my signature!

Anderton
I've been dealing with musician's forums since 1995, and have noticed that they tend to fall into three types:
 
1. Discussions. A serial, round-robin discussion of a topic.
2. Adversarial. The forum is mostly a place for people to get into the internet equivalent of bar fights.
3. Broadcasting. The forum provides a soapbox for people to express opinions, pro or con.
 
What intrigues me about the Sonar forum these days is how it has become a partnership between Cakewalk and Sonar users. Noel, Seth, Dan, Ryan, and Andrew (did I forget anyone?) have been extremely attentive to what's going on here (I don't know how they manage the time and I doubt they can keep up this pace forever, but it reveals their mindset). As a result, Cakewalk has a "human face" and that old saw about being able to be rude because you're dealing with people who are anonymous no longer applies. These are flesh-and-blood people who have their own styles of posting, are being extremely accommodating, and it's obvious they're sincere in their desire to make Sonar the best DAW on the planet (although I'm sure Andrew will correct me and say they want to produce "the best DAW in the universe").
 
In return, the tone of most users has been enthusiastic, supportive, and civil. Instead of "Hey Cakewalk, you morons, there's a bug" y'all are providing reports, helpful advice on ways to reproduce issues, and "testing the waters" with the other forumites to try and determine if you're really experiencing a bug or whether it's perhaps user error.
 
Frankly, the whole dynamic is pretty impressive. I think two significant updates in a month is a testimony to the value of this dynamic.
 
This forum has traditionally been a cut above, but now I think it's several cuts above. Major props to the Sonar community, Cakewalk, and the degree of partnership they've created.

One of the most insightful and well written posts I have read on this forum. Well done CA, agree 100%.

Anderton

Dingleberry

Anderton

Dingleberry

Anderton

Dingleberry
maybe there is a lot more to it than what you think Mr. Anderton.
 
edited

An air of mystery is brought into the discussion...

no mystery for me Mr Anderton.
since you replied I'll tell you these are my issue's other my say inconsequential, they are not me. I have a right to my opinion right or wrong.
1. i feel the zealots of Sonar have beating the life out of the "nay sayers" so no one dare's speak up anymore, or it turn into a joke.

I actually see the opposite. A lot of people are documenting specific bugs and mentioning limitations they'd like to see addressed in future updates. The difference is that they're doing it in a spirit of partnership with the software designers at Cakewalk, who are quite clearly paying close attention as many of the issues mentioned right after release have already been fixed.
 
There's a difference between constructive and destructive criticism. I think the nature of the criticism these days is much more constructive, i.e., it's documented and corroborated. This makes it much easier for the Bakers to address those criticisms. Addressing those criticisms puts users in a better frame of mind, so their criticism gets more constructive, which makes it even easier to give the customers what they want...it becomes a positive feedback loop.
 
As to what happened in the past, that's in the past. I think what you're seeing now is the direction Cakewalk will continue to pursue in the future - with some additional improvements that we think will be well-received. And yes, X1 was problematic, but it's what got us to where we are now, and people seem increasingly pleased with what's happening with X3. A band's first rehearsal is not as good as what they sound like after playing a bunch of gigs.
 
No product is perfect, no company is perfect, and I daresay no user here is perfect either. But if we partner well, then we will all get closer to perfection.
 
 

thats a great post Mr Anderton, and I wholeheartedly agree with many points. admittedly and shamefully I have not been the perfect forumite. I doubt that any would claim that title, well except Bapu. :)
And as a long time a customer thank you for your direct response to me. I felt compelled to post and I regret is because it served no purpose, yet again. my pain threshold is low at the moment. however I am still drawn here because of the GREAT forum members that share their knowledge freely. and still have a place in my heart for Sonar (kinda like a scorned lover) (silly I know).
Thank you for allowing me to "vent" without destroying me.
thanks,
Michael

First of all, feel free to call me Craig
 
And also, I believe that "nothing's better left unsaid." Your post served a definite purpose, which was to create a dialog between us where we both understand each other better. But I also have the good, or bad, fortune of having used pretty much every DAW in existence and I've learned none of them are perfect, so I see things from that perspective. The ones that are super-stable usually achieve that at the expense of a more limited feature set, while the more ambitious DAWs (and I would put Sonar in that category) open themselves up to the potential for more issues and incompatibilities.
 
But ultimately, I didn't start this thread to talk about Sonar, but more to point out the positive kind of interactions that are happening regarding X3. Frankly. I think what this forum is doing right now serves as an example of what can accomplished when people work together to achieve a common goal. Cakewalk wants to make the ideal program, we want to use the ideal program, and all of us are doing what we can to further that goal. That includes you, Michael...we all do things each in our own way.
 
 

I'll would like to still call you Mr. Anderton. ( I think you deserve it),
thanks for being so pleasant. I must admit Cakewalk Staff has always been pleasant. Your last statement really give me a good feeling, honestly thank you.


cake was always bleeding edge, i admit, thus I never mentioned "bugs" as Ive used and experienced  other daws and am willing to work around. still no version after version like sonar. nor do I mention other Daws.
I consider myself a artist (i may not be good), we are full of emotion aren't we? . words sometimes not expressed well by me. the things I mentioned were the one that gut punched me. really the past as you say and should be left there. those things are not your fault. the other stuff I brought into this conversation I realize is baggage i need not carry nor dump here. my apologies (seems I do that a lot nowadays)

Yes, this Forum has taken a turn for the better. the tone is a little more balanced. I think a little emulated tube goodness!! (thats my attempt at a joke) :)
I wish nothing more than Cakewalk, X series and the Forum to do well.
and to you as well,
best wishes,
Michael 
 
 
 

This forum is one of the reason's I've been with Cakewalk since the pro audio days. It is one of the selling features.
 
I have an appallingly sensible job that takes up a lot of my time. I don't have a huge amount of spare time and when I do I like to make music. I don't want to waste it solving problems. So when I do have a problem I post it on here and somebody always has the solution! Fantastic. Result - more music making! Likewise if someone has a problem I know, then it my obligation to post my solution - not that I'm any expert.
 
It's what makes it a fabulous community. Long may it continue.

cityrat
 
To that end, forums develop their own personalities.  That personality can be co-opted by certain 'strong characters' or people who have their own agenda (and maybe a lot of time on their hands!).
 

Ya realize this wasn't gonna go unnoticed forever, don't ya, Bapu?!

Personally i wouldn't know a gestalt if it dropped on my head..
 
Is it a bird?.. a plane?..
 
BANG!!! 
 
"ouch!...oh..so you must be Gestalt, I think we will get along just fine"....

Anderton

Dingleberry

Anderton

Dingleberry
maybe there is a lot more to it than what you think Mr. Anderton.
 
edited

An air of mystery is brought into the discussion...

no mystery for me Mr Anderton.
since you replied I'll tell you these are my issue's other my say inconsequential, they are not me. I have a right to my opinion right or wrong.
1. i feel the zealots of Sonar have beating the life out of the "nay sayers" so no one dare's speak up anymore, or it turn into a joke.

I actually see the opposite. A lot of people are documenting specific bugs and mentioning limitations they'd like to see addressed in future updates. The difference is that they're doing it in a spirit of partnership with the software designers at Cakewalk, who are quite clearly paying close attention as many of the issues mentioned right after release have already been fixed.
 
There's a difference between constructive and destructive criticism. I think the nature of the criticism these days is much more constructive, i.e., it's documented and corroborated. This makes it much easier for the Bakers to address those criticisms. Addressing those criticisms puts users in a better frame of mind, so their criticism gets more constructive, which makes it even easier to give the customers what they want...it becomes a positive feedback loop.
 
As to what happened in the past, that's in the past. I think what you're seeing now is the direction Cakewalk will continue to pursue in the future - with some additional improvements that we think will be well-received. And yes, X1 was problematic, but it's what got us to where we are now, and people seem increasingly pleased with what's happening with X3. A band's first rehearsal is not as good as what they sound like after playing a bunch of gigs.
 
No product is perfect, no company is perfect, and I daresay no user here is perfect either. But if we partner well, then we will all get closer to perfection.
 

 
 
+1000
 
It's the culture.  Every community establishes it's own culture and this forum has one too.  There are certainly negatives that are brought up, and the way they are brought up is either accepted or rejected by the "culture".  If you bring up the negative in a destructive way the "culture" will get down on you.  
 
The developers are people too, and they really care.  Most of us "get" that.  Some people totally miss the big picture and will rant and complain as if the company is always bad and doesn't care and is only motivated by money.  They fail to understand that yes, the company IS motivated by money.  How they make more money is to provide features and reliability which earns long term customer loyalty.  The Company "gets" this and so do most on the forum.  
 
"Constructive" feedback is well tolerated by the forum culture, while "destructive" feedback is not.  If you feel that people are beating up on you ask yourself if you are "getting" the big picture.  Do you recognize that there have been many improvements?  Do you recognize the increased participation of the Developers on the forum?  And how they have fixed a bunch of things very quickly?  If you don't "get" that, and you point out faults in a destructive way, without respect for the people who are doing their best to create long term customer loyalty, then people will probably still get down on you.
 

If the "gestalt" were to fall on you you wont be saying anything afterward. It means roughly the whole. There is no English equivalent. Its used in psychology to mean the whole as in the total person. So if it were to fall on anyone it would be everything. The entire universe.  I don't think you or I could recover.

What about if it fell in to your project before you clicked "save"? Could that screw up your project?