• SONAR
  • The way Sonar plays back midi sequences (p.7)
2013/11/01 15:00:02
Grem
Mystic38
 
Yesterday would have been a better day to resurrect a zombie thread........




I had a good laugh on this one!!
2013/11/01 15:10:38
joden
Grem
 
 And in my opinion, in regards to Sonar not playing Midi info "musically," is something perhaps, "subjective."




One can only agree with this comment. Certainly so, based on the evidence (or lack of it rather) shown so far.
2013/11/01 15:18:35
brundlefly
Grem
Mystic38
 
Yesterday would have been a better day to resurrect a zombie thread........




I had a good laugh on this one!!




 I agree, but have to say, I'm kind of glad to see it come back to life (undead?) so we can put it to bed properly (to mix metaphors) all after all the mental energy already expended.
 
Or, as my old boss, might have put it: "Let's get this baby into the end zone, and put a fork in it".
 
 
2013/11/01 16:26:14
Jeff Evans
I am getting alomst a complete null all the way through. The fact that the kick or clap can only be completely nulled with minute differences in level from of the tracks only shows there were tiny differences in level with various parts of the drum kit from that VST in one program or another.
 
If there were really timing differences you would be hearing loud bits within the null at random times and that is not happening here for me anyway. So I would guess that timing wise both of those programs generated exactly the same timing and one is not different from the other.
 
But I still stand by my observations though that Sonar and Studio One definitley handle midi timing differently when it comes to external instruments though. Especially when under audio load. Studio One midi timing sounds better while the audio side of the program is under pressure. It is one of the main reasons I use it. It is like the midi is separate from the audio and the timing remains tight and also never alters what was played in no matter what is going on elsewhere. (I don't quantise midi data all that much, I prefer to play stuff in with feel and not want it changed on playback)
 
 
2013/11/01 16:38:36
Grem
brundlefly
 
...I'm kind of glad to see it come back to life (undead?) so we can put it to bed properly (to mix metaphors) all after all the mental energy already expended.
 
Or, as my old boss, might have put it: "Let's get this baby into the end zone, and put a fork in it".




Yes I agree here. Good play on words too!
 
Jeff Evans
 
If there were really timing differences you would be hearing loud bits within the null at random times and that is not happening here for me anyway.
 

 
I'm getting the same here. And have drawn the same conclusions.
 
Jeff Evans
 
But I still stand by my observations though that Sonar and Studio One definitley handle midi timing differently when it comes to external instruments though. Especially when under audio load. Studio One midi timing sounds better while the audio side of the program is under pressure. It is one of the main reasons I use it. It is like the midi is separate from the audio and the timing remains tight and also never alters what was played in no matter what is going on elsewhere. (I don't quantise midi data all that much, I prefer to play stuff in with feel and not want it changed on playback)




You may have point right there Jeff. I haven't come across this, yet. But as I get my wife to play more keyboards/piano for me I may notice. I will keep this in mind though.
 
 
2013/11/01 16:53:08
sharke
I had a listen. I didn't notice any difference in timing or feel between the two at all. I set each track to mono and panned them hard left and right, then put a HPF on the result to isolate the hats - listening on headphones they sounded very focused and right in the middle of my head. Surely if there were timing differences the image would sound a little smeared? 
2013/11/01 17:02:23
brundlefly
Jeff Evans
But I still stand by my observations though that Sonar and Studio One definitley handle midi timing differently when it comes to external instruments though. Especially when under audio load. Studio One midi timing sounds better while the audio side of the program is under pressure.



 
Déjà vu all over again...   http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/2230884
 
Where's the beef? 
2013/11/01 17:31:28
Jeff Evans
What it does show though is there are no differences in terms of midi files and feel when it comes to internal VST's which is what many of you are running. What I am doing is running quite a large external setup and there are differences there, no doubt. I also run internal VST's too so it is good to know that these programs are handling the internal VST stuff the same. They do not handle external midi timing the same way though.
 
It could also be and I suspect this that the way I have my midi interface connected to a serial port and there is nothing on that port apart from the midi interface. (My interface has 8 midi ports and I only have 5 powerful external instruments and they all have a whole port to themselves. And although I could get each port doing 16 things at once I tend to only get each instrument to only do one thing at once meaning we are dealing with a latency of 1ms or so per synth. Actually way better than a lot of audio latencies with VST's. The hardware instruments still have latency as well internally but it is very fast as in case of my Kurzweil for instance and it is consistent so I can slide external midi tracks back by the total latency amount to bring them all perfectly into line timing wise)
 
Sounds like Studio One has a clear and direct path to the serial port and it is always the same no matter what is happening over the USB buss or the PCI buss as well. It might be an older way of doing but it is certainly a very good way. I can hear it easily. BTW Sonar does not handle external midi timing as well even with the same interface on the serial port.
 
I must also say though that these differences are very small and extremely subtle. Some may not even notice them but a drummer with a strong sense of time and feel however will feel it.
2013/11/01 17:56:06
Grem
brundlefly
 
Where's the beef? 




I remember that thread.
 
I'm saying that Jeff has more of a chance to have timing issues than the OP.
2013/11/01 18:07:30
Grem
Jeff Evans
 
It could also be and I suspect this that the way I have my midi interface connected to a serial port
 



Jeff I looked at my home computer that is over 6 yrs old. It has no Serial port. I do not have a serial port on my music pc. If I am not mistaken, isn't serial port technology before ISA? And ISA was left in the dust long ago. Maybe Windows is handling this older technology differently? Wouldn't Fire Wire be a better choice.
 
Maybe a new motherboard might help?
 
Just asking some questions and trying to understand.
 
I went to the first Pre****sphere and heard some stuff about S1. It was built from the ground up with what you are talking about. No/very low latency.
 
Is there a way that you could provide a test as the OP did so that we could see?
 
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