We're not even in the timing issues anymore. Something else is happening in Sonar, in the way rythmic elements are rendered -
 
Hopefully someone with decent ears and feel @ cakewalk will take this seriously?
 
It's only happening in Cubase (pre-7 version) and in Sonar.
 
And yes, there is something odd happening. for us the more we dug, the less it had to do with timing, and the more it had
to do with the way sonar renders mixed transients.
 
There's almost some kind of weird transient priority/cuting/clipping going on in S1 or other daws, that make drum work
much more effortless.
 
If you guys can hear it, more power to you.
 
 
 
 
 

Kewl Hendagang
We're not even in the timing issues anymore. Something else is happening in Sonar, in the way rythmic elements are rendered -
 
Hopefully someone with decent ears and feel @ cakewalk will take this seriously?
 
It's only happening in Cubase (pre-7 version) and in Sonar.
 
And yes, there is something odd happening. for us the more we dug, the less it had to do with timing, and the more it had
to do with the way sonar renders mixed transients.
 
There's almost some kind of weird transient priority/cuting/clipping going on in S1 or other daws, that make drum work
much more effortless.
 
If you guys can hear it, more power to you.
 

 
I doubt you're going to get anywhere by suggesting that people who can't "hear it" don't have decent ears. 
And if this "weird transient priority/cutting/clipping" that you say you can hear really is happening, then it's nothing you can't process within Sonar by other means, i.e. if that's what you want. 
 
But to suggest that a DAW should impart some kind of subjective "feel" into rhythmic elements is ridiculous IMO. 

Kewl Hendagang
 
Hopefully someone with decent ears and feel @ cakewalk will take this seriously?
 
It's only happening in Cubase (pre-7 version) and in Sonar.

I don't have golden ears.
 
But I do have feel. And I took this seriously enough to give of my time to try and see what you were trying to say/explain.
 
And I just don't see it your way.
 
Did a drummer play what we heard? Or was it a beat tapped into the track?

sharke
 
I doubt you're going to get anywhere by suggesting that people who can't "hear it" don't have decent ears. 
And if this "weird transient priority/cutting/clipping" that you say you can hear really is happening, then it's nothing you can't process within Sonar by other means, i.e. if that's what you want. 
 
But to suggest that a DAW should impart some kind of subjective "feel" into rhythmic elements is ridiculous IMO. 
 

 
 



Well we can debate about that for days, but if we simply stick to the facts, the files don't null.
In my test file, lowering sonar's playback at -.2 db nulls the claps, at -.3 it nulls the snare and kick.
So with EXACTLY the same ingredients (same midi tracks, same VST, same sample kit), Sonar sounds one way, the other daws sound another way.
So instead of arguing about better or worse wich seems to be pointless, can someone tip in on the why does it sound different?

Grem

Kewl Hendagang
 
Hopefully someone with decent ears and feel @ cakewalk will take this seriously?
 
It's only happening in Cubase (pre-7 version) and in Sonar.

I don't have golden ears.
 
But I do have feel. And I took this seriously enough to give of my time to try and see what you were trying to say/explain.
 
And I just don't see it your way.
 
Did a drummer play what we heard? Or was it a beat tapped into the track?

A pretty well established drummer/programmer did the drum playing/programming in Logic. He's was the one to first
tell us something sounded odd when the files came out of my sonar rig - The first thing he said after I sent him back the audio was
''did you move my snare earlier in time?''

I listened to the files using Sonar X3c Pro. I used exclusive solo and kept switching back and forth repeatedly and could not hear any difference in timing. Sorry. 
 
I will not say that my casual listening is in anyway definitive. But nothing stood out as being out of time.
 
Perhaps that was not what you were asking about. 
 

John
I listened to the files using Sonar X3c Pro. I used exclusive solo and kept switching back and forth repeatedly and could not hear any difference in timing. Sorry. 
 
I will not say that my casual listening is in anyway definitive. But nothing stood out as being out of time.
 
Perhaps that was not what you were asking about. 
 

Hey John,
 
The issue seems to not be about timing anymore - there something (yes it's minimal) going on that is more of a subbtle
sound difference, but as minimal as it is it plays on the groove perception of a few ears here. not all... just a few, but they are the ones
that I trust the most. So it's enough for me to try and get an answer, as I hear it too. It's almost like the sonar rendition carries more ''mids'' in the snare and
hats. it ''cuts through'' more in the mix. wether or not this is a good thing is irrelevant at this point.
 
FYI it's much more apparent when listening with headphones

What a brilliant subject matter and thread. Some great answers in there. I don't think Kewl got his answers, but he has a lot to work on. Hope you find the answer to your "Why" Kewl.

a second FYI : more or less mids/top end on percussions/drum elements WILL play on the perception of groove...
 
so if it's a sound difference, it still CAN be felt as a timing difference although there seem to be none when looking at the
waveform

I am of the impression that there is a sonic difference but am very unsure of that notion. 
 
If there was any processing in either DAW that may account for it. This could be as basic as what pan law was used.