John T

M_Glenn_M
It's still hard to reply "Sonar" and have everyone look blank and say "Huh, never heard of it" when they ask what you are using.

I get that reaction quite a lot. It doesn't bother me, personally.

The best thing we can do for Sonar is make quality sounding music with it, this way people will go "Wow, you did that with Sonar?!"

M_Glenn_M
It's still hard to reply "Sonar" and have everyone look blank and say "Huh, never heard of it" when they ask what you are using.Most seem to think Garageband, Cubase or Logic are the main alternatives to PT. I feel like the underdog.

Yes but how many of the people who say "huh?" will have nonetheless heard of Cakewalk? When I was researching DAW's I had never heard of Sonar, but as soon as I learned it was the offspring of Cakewalk I had an immediate respect for it, the name being familiar to me from when I used to dabble in music in the early 90's and everyone seemed to use that or Cubase.

I have Protools 11 but installed only version 10 as I can get all my plugins working in 10. If I go to version 11 I loose this functionality although it was included. I believe many wont upgrade for that reason. Only got it as the web has load of training videos and templates I could practice on in protools format. It works great with my RME Fireface and Babyface. 
Was really surprised how far it is behind Sonar. Cakewalk is wonderful for midi not sure what will happen if they withdraw Sonitus TTs-1 as it's so easy to get a midi playing in seconds. Protools cannot do this nor Presonus easily. 

Among my circle, I make more recordings than my friends. I don't know anyone spinning close to as much tape as I do. Now, I'm talking all amateurs, but still. Lots of people have DAWs of varying types. I have had no success at encouraging people towards any kind of standard. I've often hoped my friends would pick up the DAW I picked but few do. They aren't coalescing around some other software either. It's a random hodge podge. Most people seem to go with whatever free disc came with an interface they bought 10 years ago. (me too btw - giggle).
 
I've noticed that people do pay attention when I say I use Sonar as much because it's me saying I use it and they hear my recordings. It isn't lost on my friends at the music stores. It isn't lost on my friends in the performing communities.
 
The only other girl I've got eyes for is Linux Ubuntu Studio and Ardour, but that's just cause she's loose and has low standards. ;-)
 http://ubuntustudio.org/tour/audio/

Wow! Really? PT11 is 64 bit and does offline bounce too?!! It's about time don't ya think? 

Perhaps some of the PT is "standard" position could be related to marketing. I would have thought that Cakewalk try to market themselves  to the big studios, and try to sell to them, so why aren't they making an impression? Is the industry in such a deep rut that the studios are afraid to be the first to change their ways? Well, I don't know the answer to those questions, but marketing must play a role in it.
 
I would have thought that Cakewalk could take a bigger market share with Sonar X3 if, by what I've read here, seems to be comparable if not better in various areas.
M_Glenn_M and John T should not be getting "What's that?" reactions. The new user base needs to expand.
 
I hope Cakewalk can make some headway with X3.

markyzno
Spiderman vs Batman......

Both are awesome. (btw Sonar would be Spiderman and PT would be Batman!)

But I like Batman best. And Sonar best. I'm so confused. Why does life have to be so complicated??!?!

leebut
Perhaps some of the PT is "standard" position could be related to marketing. I would have thought that Cakewalk try to market themselves  to the big studios, and try to sell to them, so why aren't they making an impression?

As a relative newcomer to the DAW world and SONAR is particular, I may have an advantage of being able to look from the outside in.  It is clear there were several forces that Avid exploited to put them into the dominant position for "professional studios", so to speak.  They had reliability and scalability, owing to dedicated hardware at a time when the software-only products really couldn't get the job done.  Once you achieve a critical mass, inertia tends to maintain status quo until a major change occurs in the environment.
 
It seems there are now major changes in the environment.  One is simply the progress of hardware and software to the point that the dedicated hardware is no longer necessary, and not really even desirable.  But another big change is that, because the "soft DAW" has made recording so affordable, musicians are doing a lot of this themselves.  And if they do deal with a "professional studio" then no longer look upon that as a temple of the gods.  They may even want to bring partially completed projects to the studio to reduce the cost of their pro sessions.  And chances are, they won't be coming in with PT projects.
 
Based on comments up-thread, it seems that a) lots of the "professional studios" have simply disappeared.  and b) the survivors no longer consider themselves "PT shops" per se.  They now figure they have to work with whatever platform their clients bring in.  That is a huge change.
 
How does this affect Cakewalk marketing?  Well, without reliability, you just aren't going to be very welcome in a professional environment.  And it seems reliability has been elusive, so it probably would not have been productive to try to market overtly to professional studios.  But with X3 and the move to Gibson, it seems to be a whole new day and things that were not possible 4 months ago really are possible now.
 
My sense is that it will still be an organic process.  SONAR will rise based on how well musicians like it at the grass roots level.  And as it rises, professional studios will take note.  It seems to me this process is well underway now.
 
I would rather be Cakewalk than Avid right now.  Avid will not grow downward to the professional musician and hobbyist base.  There are too many better products that cost a lot less.  And professional studios are going away.  They really have nowhere to go but down.  Cakewalk is in the opposite position.  They are at the right price point to capture a large share of the fast-growing serious-hobbyist and professional-musician market, and that will drive SONAR's footprint into professional studios over time -- not displacing Cubase or PT, but running alongside them.

I have been using Sonar since Sonar 6. I currently have X2 and I have to say I am having a tough time with this release. I will not go into detail but I have been in contact with support several times and follow suggestions on the forum and still have issues. I feel very strongly that Cakewalk dropped the ball in expecting me to pay another 149.00 on a may be it will correct the issues with X3. I can't even get a demo to test.
This being said I am purchasing Eleven Rack- Pro Tools 10-11 for 669.00. This is an awesome deal. At least now I will have the chance to see the differences. Another bonus is a good friend who is a Producer/Mixer/Engineer in NYC and who does a lot of work for TV will now be able to mix and master some songs for me now that we have the same DAW (Pro Tools).
I look forward to finding out for myself and will still have Sonar X2 but for the time being I will do no further investing in this DAW.
 

cparmerlee
...But with X3 and the move to Gibson, it seems to be a whole new day and things that were not possible 4 months ago really are possible now.
 

+1   For whatever reason I had this feeling from day one when the accouncement was made. And what's really odd about that for me, is that I've always been much more of Roland fan than Gibson.   I can't really explain why so I just go with it.
 
As far as PT goes, it's had more than it's fair share of issues and errors and unhappy campers over the years, just like every other DAW.   Go browse the DUC and it's not hard to find negative threads.   However, other users absolutely love PT and would never switch.   That says something too - that PT is (again) like every other DAW. 
 
I only have PTLE 7.4, but haven't opened it in quite a while.  It just feels "antiquated".   If I had the $$ I would upgrade to 11, but Avid's prices are definitely out of my realm.