John


Everybody knows you can't slice cheese with an amateur cheese knife. You have to use a pro cheese knife. All the best chesses use Pro cheese knives.  Now, if you wish to do it right and upgrade I can sell you a proper pro cheese knife. We have an installment plan too. You will need it.  

 
LOL!
 
But this legendary, magical 'pro' cheese knife of which you speak John...
 
Is it 32bit or full-fat 64bit?
 
 
And I do like the odd mouthful of Stinking Bishop myself.
 
 
 
 
MMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm........................ cheeeeeeeeeeese
 
 
 

SteveStrummerUK

John


Everybody knows you can't slice cheese with an amateur cheese knife. You have to use a pro cheese knife. All the best chesses use Pro cheese knives.  Now, if you wish to do it right and upgrade I can sell you a proper pro cheese knife. We have an installment plan too. You will need it.  

 
LOL!
 
But this legendary, magical 'pro' cheese knife of which you speak John...
 
Is it 32bit or full-fat 64bit?
 
 
And I do like the odd mouthful of Stinking Bishop myself.
 
 
 
 
MMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm........................ cheeeeeeeeeeese
 
 
 

Its one byte per slice.

Unfortnately, PT isn't going anywhere and will remain the "standard" until Hell freezes over. I know this because in the film world, 99% of my stems need to be delivered in PT format. Thank God for the "express" version, $699 is a complete rip off.

$699 is a complete rip off.

 
As is $399 to upgrade.   My version of PTLE 7.4 goes pretty much unused these days since I can't run it on Win7, so have to boot to a Vista partition that serves no other purpose.  I really do like some of the synths though, and the FX in newer versions seem nice.   Just not $399 worth of nice.     
 

Here's a nice article from SoS (I love that magazine). It details a project that was done, using Pro Tools for various aspects.
 
IMO, Pro Tools is overkill for this type of project. A well spec'd native system running any of the major DAWs should be able to handle the project from start to finish without a glitch.
 
However, there was a time when this was not the case & 30-40 mics, maybe a half dozen headphone mixes, required the additional power of a Pro Tools system. But just like the home studio has grown from the 4-track tascam, there are some studio's out there recording a hundred sources, or playing back 500 tracks, while providing effects processing, routing processes, real-time pitch and tempo processes, etc..... without a glitch.
 
That market is shrinking & Avid (Digidesign) is having to adapt. They've yet to focus on the home market or today's small studio, where chopped down versions of their flagship is hardly competitve. At the same time, native based systems with their extra features & 64 bit support aren't competitive on the high-end.

Very true; its a matter of value VS needs, and what price you're willing to pay for full project compatibility with most Professional Studios which run Pro-tools. You can export projects from Sonar, Nuendo and others to Pro-tools but its never spot on with every nuance of automation, every single plugin instance, and you'll have to "bounce" many things or you may run into incompatibilities. It does it very close, but some things can be missed and you'll have to go through that project very thoroughly.   
Truly, you'd want to run Pro-tools HD, but a powerhouse PC with Cakewalk, the right gear and top end interfaces could deliver the same mix or better, really depending on the skills of the engineer.
I still have pro-tools but merged to Cakewalk years ago, I started my learning curve in 2006, I still have a Windows PC running Pro tools 7 just so that I could truthfully answer "YES" when they ask me -"Do you run pro-tools in your studio?"  
I stopped at PT 7 that's it.   Too many requirements and upgrades, too much $$$ down the drain, narrow choices for interfaces (at least back then) now you can use your own hardware finally, but it was painful and very constrictive. 
 

Then there is the way sonar can integrate hardware with a good interface and the way Protools HD integrates hard ware. I think protools wins on that one. 

Been listening to this argument protools vs sonar since 2005 


Sonar does what I need it's a nice programs. If I could afford protools HD I'd probably buy it. So would you. 


Beating a dead horse with this argument. Protools will always be the "standard" when you're working with big named famous bands. 

Cheers, 

Paul 

Rain

Freddie H

Rain

@ Rain, what a joke!

So the rest of 90% rest of the production and music (99,999% of all films) made by other software's then Pro Tools that are in x64bit doesn't cut it?
I would say the vast majority users use Cubase, Nuendo, SONAR X2, LOGIC PRO, STUDIO ONE, Live, Samplitude and DP not Pro Tools.
I would estimate that 90% in Europe use Cubase, Nuendo, Logic PRO, Studio one and Live. The most of all top producers, Red One, Swedish House Mafia, Max Martin + many of my other colleges that are from Sweden use Logic PRO or Cubase. I'm the only one from Sweden using SONAR X2 that I know of...

Not saying that other products don't cut it Freddie - I'm saying that a lot of the users of those software seem to have some kind on an inferiority complex so they are constantly feeling the need to justify their choice and bash Pro Tools.  

I was talking about commercial recording studios putting out recordings that are known outside their respective scene.. You know? About real engineers, who know how to mic a drum or a guitar cabinet. Who mix other things than samples and synths. I'm talking about guys like Joe Baressi, recording Tool or Queens of the Stone Age. 

Listen to 10 000 Days by Tool, or to the last Soundgarden and then tell me what's wrong w/ Pro Tools again. Tell me what they lack compared to all the amazing chart toppers that were produced using Cubase. 

Come to Las Vegas and hear the amazing remixes and the impeccable quality of the Beatles music in the show Love. I guess Abbey Road couldn't afford Sonar and it's amazing 64 Bit engine, so they had to make due w/ Pro Tools. 

I sat there for 2 hours and kept thinking: Poor, poor George Martin! if only PT had been 64 bit... If only... NOT.


I'll tell you this - in my travels and among all the musicians I've met, all the studios I have visited in the last two years - private and commercial - I've seen NOTHING but Pro Tools and Logic. 

One guy that uses DP instead of Logic. One.

I'm not saying that other software isn't used by some people or that it isn't adequate. Sonar is good, Cubase is good, Nuendo is good...  But the fact that they are 64 bit or this or that doesn't mean a thing in the face of the very simple fact that the industry uses Pro Tools. 


And by industry, I don't mean the new breed of so-called independent professional DJ/Producers defecating "beats" on the internet out of their mom's house basement, remixing each other and gigging at the corner pub once a month. 

Since DAWs and the internet, it's like there's no amateur anywhere anymore. 

There is nothing wrong with Pro tools, you just have to realize that certain features like fast bouncing, 64 bits, and optimus latency engine with any ASIO compatible hardware..already others program had it for a bit long ago, it is a complicated issue, since PT came from a tight hardware/soft background, and now Intel microprocesors can do anything...almost

Jeff Evans


Very well said Rain. At last the voice of reason. And like I have been saying the reason they are making millions of dollars using PT and 32 bit apps is because the music is good. Simple as that really. When the music is good nothing else really matters. 

I am in Beatles mode right now reading a great book on John Lennon called 'Lennon' by Tim Riley. They had pretty restricted things back then, but the music! WOW! The writing and the emotion and the music just transcends it all.

John T


Yeah, ProTools is really part of a larger infrastructure of hardware, software, paid support, plus a bit of the lock-in effect of being the industry (and importantly, formal training) standard. I don't think "Pro" necessarily means "best", it means "Pro". In terms of a fairly standardised working environment for projects to easily pass from studio to studio, and for it to be easy to find a professional user of, Pro Tools is basically it. In terms of what these bits of software can do, they're really all roughly the same. Everything's got a few things that something else hasn't. 90%, they're about equivalent.

Of course, and even that can changue over time...

jscomposer


 Thank God for the "express" version, $699 is a complete rip off.

Well, for the people who only need express, it might seem a rip off. But then again, try Nuendo or Sequoia... ;)

$699 for Pro Tools. 
Sonar, Cubase, Digital Performer all retail for around $500 IIRC.

Considering that Pro Tools buys you compatibility w/ most commercial studios, it can be worth it. 

If PT compatibility is something that you have to deal with day in day out, considering the time it takes to bounce tracks, import them, re-create the sessions back and forth... You do that a couple of times and you've wasted a lot more than $200 in studio time.