Bristol_Jonesey

When you freeze, by default it literally freezes everything...the track fx bin and any plugs VSTi's, pro channel (though it really doesn't freeze it, it just globally shuts the track down at the top, but if you turned it back on you'd be double processing) and to me it's just the long way around really.

 
Sorry Danny.
 
I have to disagree with you on this one.
 
Let's just clear the decks, I'm talking about freezing the synth as opposed to freezing the track
 
There is a world of difference between the 2 and you do get completely different results.
 
But, on your Midi track, if you right click the freeze button, Sonar lets you choose what it is you want to be frozen - including Track Fx. I never include any Fx to be included in a freeze, I just pop in & out of freeze whenever I need to make Midi adjustments.
All my Fx bins and Pro Channel are live constantly, whether the track is frozen or not.

No need to be sorry Jonesey....you're exactly right! I totally forgot about "choosing what you want frozen" and always left it alone! LMAO! Clearing effects being frozen etc makes it a totally different ballgame that is pretty cool now that I'm using it this way! Hahahahahaha! Thanks for waking me up to this. I knew about the freeze options, but honestly never messed with them and just clicked on that little snowflake and waited. :)
 
Beeps, try what he's saying when you get a chance....just make sure you go into freeze options and disable what you don't want to freeze...which is why things would take so long on my end. The wait is what I hated the most....then going back to each track bin and unbypassing...which won't need to be done if effects aren't frozen.
 
*bows to Jonesey* Thanks for setting me straight man. :)
 
-Danny

Although I've never used them I was aware of the extra freeze options from the manual. What I'm really kind of curious about is (and now that I'm actually back to work on this stuff I could just test it out but it's cool to hear what you guys think) how a frozen track behaves when you do things like apply fades or cuts or move things around or mess with transients, etc... like you would with a straight audio wave. And then what happens to those things once you unfreeze the synth? From what Bapu said I'm assuming all those changes are lost.
 
As I said though I do now have the opportunity to play with these kinds of things but I get the sinking sus*p*i*cion I might get a crash or corrupt the project if I mess around with this type of thing too much.

Beepster
Hi, Jonesey. Will this create waves/clips of all the parts? This isn't particularly about conserving CPU power but more wanting to work with the drums as if it were recorded material. There are some techniques I want to try out for practice (like extracting MIDI from a kick clip for doubling). Also much of the old material I need to work on uses recorded drums so I need to get used to working on things that way. I'm just gonna do some quick edits to the MIDI file to tighten things up and force myself to work with the results.
 
May seem silly I don't know this already but I just don't recall running across this in any of my studies and I figure it's easier to ask here than spend an afternoon digging through manuals.

Not a problem Beepster...
 
Freezing will create wav files for each output/track... you can then work on them as audio... You may need to toggle the bypass for the fx bin and/or enable the PC (it would apply any current settings then create the wav file if you have used fx prior to freezing, so you may want to bypass such before freezing then apply which fx you wish afterwards)...
 
Keni
 

Yup, an unfreeze will lose your audio edits since the audio is swapped for the original MIDI data.  However, you can simply copy the frozen audio to new tracks and do your editing there.   That'd be like bouncing the clips while you still have the original synth data.
 

Okay, definitely sounding like a bounce of the performance (sans effects) then archive of the MIDI is what I want. Even if I do want to manipulate the MIDI data if I pull the MIDI tracks out of the archive, make my changes and bounce again I can (in theory) just drag the new audio clips into the existing tracks and any effects, automation or level changes will apply to the new clips. I'm assuming I could even toss them into a new take lane to A/B the two different performances to see what I like better.
 
Extremely informative, guys. I have a much better understanding of all this now. Thanks again.

Thanks, Steve. If there are indeed boxed upgrades for eco floating around out there I'm sure I can scrounge one up. It's odd that they didn't include those BFD2 kits in BFD3. You'd think since they are already recorded and ready to go they just toss them in. Weird. Cheers.

Well considering it came will all new kits from platinum samples that already expand to 55GB that would have meant a total download of 110GB which I'm sure would have put a lot of people off.
Also a lot the new BFD3 kits come with 5 extra channels in addition to the Overhead, Room and Ambient channels.
They do plan to release the BFD2 kits as an expansion in the near future as they have recently done with Eldorado, the original BFD1 kits so all is not lost for BFD2
 
Steve

twaddle

Thanks, Steve. If there are indeed boxed upgrades for eco floating around out there I'm sure I can scrounge one up. It's odd that they didn't include those BFD2 kits in BFD3. You'd think since they are already recorded and ready to go they just toss them in. Weird. Cheers.

Well considering it came will all new kits from platinum samples that already expand to 55GB that would have meant a total download of 110GB which I'm sure would have put a lot of people off.
Also a lot the new BFD3 kits come with 5 extra channels in addition to the Overhead, Room and Ambient channels.
They do plan to release the BFD2 kits as an expansion in the near future as they have recently done with Eldorado, the original BFD1 kits so all is not lost for BFD2
 
Steve

Wow. That sounds pretty crazy, man. I LOVE PS's stuff.
 
Welp... I guess that'll be one more thing I'll have to pine over. lol

Freezing the synth will create wavs for each of the track the synth is outputting to. That much is clear & true.
The wavs will "live" in the associated audio track(s), as opposed to a bounce which will create a new track totally independent of the synth midi/audio.
 
With regards editing, provided you edit at the TRACK level, no changes will be lost when unfreezing. For example, track envelopes such as level/pan/mute etc will remain intact when you unfreeze, as will any track Fx in the Fx bin and Pro Channel provided you've set the correct options in Freeze Options
 
I'm not sure what happens with clip envelopes & edits, and I'm currently nowhere near my DAW but I'll check when I get home.
 
Something is ringing a bell telling me when you unfreeze, the wav created by the initial freeze doesn't get removed, it stays in place. If my feeling is true, then any clip editing will also remain in place.
 
What happens when you re-freeze the synth? This is what I need to check.

Wow. That sounds pretty crazy, man. I LOVE PS's stuff.
 
Welp... I guess that'll be one more thing I'll have to pine over. lol




It may be that you'll still be able to get those BFD Eco to BFD2 boxed upgrade this time next year but I wouldn't want to be on it so I would advise upgrading as soon as you can. The PS kits are really something else and although not all in my style there are a couple that are in danger of becoming used on all my projects 
I'm working on an alternative Christmas song using one of them right now so when that's done I might post it on the songs forum.
 
Steve

This project is a mess. lol
 
Now that I'm rerouting things I've discovered a VERY good reason to bounce the drums to audio. Because I am on BFD Eco I have a limited number of outputs from the synth. I want to have full control over each kit piece right in Sonar without having to fiddle with the BFD mixer. As it stands even though I have routed my ride and floor tom to the Aux outs in BFD and put my hi tom in one of the percussion slots I still have two rack toms and two cymbals that are grouped together (under the toms and cymbals outputs) so I cannot manipulate those pieces independently.
 
So what I'm going to try to do to separate them in both cases is mute one of the pieces and bounce the output then mute it and do the same for the other piece. That way even though they are jammed together in BFD I'll have a track for EVERY piece in Sonar. I'm assuming this is possible.
 
This is one of the reasons I've wanted to upgrade to the full version of BFD as I'm pretty sure it allows for a lot more independent outputs. I think I'm also going to have to clone the overhead and room mics so I have left and right tracks of each instead of one stereo out. I'm not sure how well that will work. Possibly a better idea would be to pan each one way so I'm only getting one side, bounce, reverse the pan and bounce again.
 
Confusing. :-/