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  • what the guitar companies don't want you to know (p.4)
2016/11/05 15:07:07
DrLumen
spacey
DrLumen
I'm not a guitar person but I could see how certain woods and finishes would affect acoustic instruments.
 
In electrics perhaps denser woods would sound brighter due to sympathetic resonance to the other strings resulting in more harmonics? I would not be surprised to find that a glass body guitar would sound different than a plywood guitar. In the end though doesn't it just come down to durability? Again, not a guitar person but a plywood body would concern me due to possible warping and strange effects based on temperature and humidity.
 
Oh well, I'm just running off at the mouth... much like the guy in the video.




I didn't want you nor your question to be ignored so I'll share some thoughts.
 
No it doesn't just come down to durability although that is a consideration. Oil finish is popular and as with most finishes offers some protection. 
I think 'stability' is much more important. Even if it is a well built guitar it still requires protective care by the owner- as we know. 
 
I enjoy talking with luthiers about woods- application of, wood grains, working with, and many other aspects that I find much more interesting than the old hat opinions about what percentage of this and that- a boring trip that gets to nowhere. 
I mean, a luthier examines the woods considered for a build- checking grain, weight, tap tone etc. and decides whether or not to use it. Cull- just use the best that feels right at that moment. It's not like it's known that that piece of wood is going to have a percentage of this or that to the overall results. It's a choice made of many factors by one trying to get the best they can from the materials at hand. 
 
One building few guitars a year that may be depending on them to sell can't afford to experiment or take unnecessary risks with material choices or methods/tools. Many of the woods used have a history of successful use. Not only for creating great sounding guitars but also appealing aesthetics. 
 
Unfortunately a lot of the woods with the appealing aesthetics are relatively expensive. There are many reasons that they are. 
Many of the woods have specific uses. That's easy to understand- a dense (heavy) wood that is oily may be perfect for an unfinished fretboard, opposed to a Maple fretboard that one would want a protective finish, but it may not be the best choice for a body/neck.
 
Balance is another important aspect. Combinations of commonly used woods and design are other important considerations. 
 
Wood grain, how the wood was cut, (flatsawn, etc) 
 
I won't go on...I only wanted to share examples of why I find conversing about "percentage of this and that" so damn boring. 
 
I would think it would be best for many to just keep it "magical". I mean; We know we can go into a store and play all of the Strats hanging on the wall, all made with the same type of woods, all with the same everything and find out that there is that one...the one that is different for unknown reasons. Unknown to the ones that built it and unknown to the ones that play it. It's magic. It's a part of building that I love. I do everything to the best of my abilities with no guarantees. It's when I plug it in and find out...wow, like magic. It somehow all came together and made this fantastic instrument. Now "stability" comes in. If I do my part and take care of it, it'll perform for many years. 
I have to say...sometimes, and fortunately for me, I've only had to backup and rewind pups twice to help correct a couple that for whatever reason...just weren't quite singing. Nice thing about an electric...one may have options to make it better. 
I've also had weird ones. Nothing magical at all and if there was magic is was black. Gave me nothing but trouble from start to finish. Had to fight with every little part to the point of wanting to trash it...but I couldn't give up and finally rewarded. Luck. My magic was stronger I reckon. 
 
Well maybe I answered your question Doc and maybe some understand why I find their "tone" opinions so boring. With no offense meant of course.


Good to know.
 
Magical or lucky instruments does make some sense though. Like car engines... If you get three engines right off the same assembly line, same engine, same parts, same specs, same builders, there will be one that is faster than the others and one that may be a lemon. I had never thought of it in terms of instruments.
2016/11/05 15:07:14
DrLumen
Deleted multiple post
2016/11/05 15:07:27
DrLumen
Deleted multiple post
2016/11/05 15:16:16
SteveStrummerUK
ampfixer
I blame Trump.




I blame Trumpton ....
 

2016/11/05 17:26:38
spacey
DrLumen
 
Good to know.
 
Magical or lucky instruments does make some sense though. Like car engines... If you get three engines right off the same assembly line, same engine, same parts, same specs, same builders, there will be one that is faster than the others and one that may be a lemon. I had never thought of it in terms of instruments.




It is no doubt just my opinion Doc but it's based on my experiences so far.
 
I can give a scenario about how the "magic" may happen;
 
The luthier grabs a Maple board to examine to make a neck- checks the grain, taps it, feels the weight etc. and decides it does sound off...it's good to go...
Now at that point there is no way to know how that neck or how much that neck is going to contribute to the final tone of the instrument. After all- he's fixing to resize it, drill holes in it etc.  - You know it's going to be a completely different piece of wood when he's done.
 
Well that same thing is going to happen with the body blank too. 
 
Easy to see he's taking his best educated guess that the woods will make a guitar...but he also knows it could be just Ok or it could be that special one, that one that just has something different. He also knows it may be just Ok to him and that something special to someone else. After all, the player is a major part of how that guitar will sound.
 
Now imagine in a factory; they have stacks of neck and body blanks. They grab 'em and go. Of course the finer woods have been culled/ separated as we know- such as Paul Reed Smiths private stock. (not saying those pieces stand a better chance of making that special guitar- just higher grades of wood...to the person grading them)
With them doing their snatch and grab from the stacks every so often there is one that is different...why? I don't know. Maybe it's just those pieces of woods had the right makeup and by pure luck got matched-up together. Like magic. 
 
Just the way I currently see it. Maybe John Page or some other "real" luthier would say I'm in left field but until they do...I like my theory. lol
Now if I'm wrong?   Well then it would seem to me that after all these years it would be common knowledge that a board of this type with grain like this matched with body wood with grain.....and there would be a line of Strats hanging on the walls and everyone of them would be magical.  Sheesh...how could that even happen...what two boards are even going to be identical? 
 
I've had magic happen in my shop. I love it when it happens and if I could control it...I don't think I'd want to. 
2016/11/05 23:00:12
Moshkito
Hi,
 
Kinda weird to see this actually. I managed 2 restaurants for 7 some years, and my thoughts always were that you had to be honest with the customer and the employees, and I did not need to lie and cheat to get the job done.
 
I always had a great record with the State health authorities and the place was clean and I even had high school kids walk through with their class to see the place. You just take care of the things you need to and do not find excuses.
 
I have no issues with ... for example ... Fender and Gibson having a Mexican brand that costs less ... and surprisingly enough, not even many folks talk bad about those instruments. I might even ask the question if the guitar would last 25 years like the original, and in most cases it seems to ... and each and every time I stop by the Pawn shop (once in a decade!), I still see a lot of worn down guitars, which means they were played! Practice or not!
 
This line gets blurred ... and badly ... in the software business, and at this time, there is no state, or congress to help protect the people that are buying nothing from someone. And this, I hope to see it addressed before I depart from this bus!
 
Other than that ... it's like advise ... you're scared or a turkey, when you can not tell if some advise comes to you ... it can come from a Mac Truck, a Tonka Truck, a child, a Mosh, an idiot, and some guru out there ... but if you do not have the inner base to know the difference ... of course it won't matter, and the finger points out that way!
 
If a company does not want you to know, and has to lie to get something sold ... eventually they will pay for it ... it will come around sooner or later! Ask Volkswagen ... or Barclays ... and another big bank is next!
2016/11/06 13:46:44
ampfixer
Spacey hit on a real important point. When you scale up production you want to have some consistency in your builds. People generally know what a Les Paul or Strat will sound like because the people at the factory go through the wood and select the stuff that's average. Not to say it's not good, it's just that they aim for the middle of the spec for weight, moisture and figuring. If it's too light, too heavy, too ugly or too pretty it gets pulled off the regular production pile and diverted to a higher or lower level model. I learned this by working with an instrument builder to improve their process control program.
 
I've also read interviews with Leo Fender where he states that he discouraged the use of highly figured wood because customers would come to expect it and the availability was spotty. But Spacey is spot on. Magic does happen and none of the builders I know can predict when it will happen. It's all about experience and years of working with wood.
2016/11/06 14:35:46
spacey
Thank you John. It's nice to have a questionable opinions supported. 
2016/11/06 15:11:44
michaelhanson
spacey
Thank you John. It's nice to have a questionable opinions supported. 




I have agreed with everything you have stated, so far, Spacey.  I haven't had much to add, because you have pretty much nailed it.  I have even swapped out necks on Fenders and found that sometimes, they just seem to come together where the parts match up to make a better playing guitar.  I have one set up pickups that sounds incredible in one Strat and average in another.  Sometimes the stars just seem to align.
2016/11/06 19:12:53
spacey
Mike, I've received emails of your marking. Thank you. I'm glad I'm making some sense. 
I did some partcasters years ago. Lot of fun mixing and matching.
 
 
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