eph221
Here's the deal with those who have mastered,or attempted to master an instrument.  We want to play the best instruments so that we make the best tones.  We can make a cheap instrument sound *as good as possible*, and that means make it sound really good (even though it's cheap.)  That's true of acoustic instruments
 With electric guitars, not sure what the extra padding in the price is for.  If you put stevie ray vaughn's pickups into a squire and were able to play as well, it would sound the same I think. No?
 

David if you're serious...


I don't know why people are so insistent on electric guitar tone as if it's the only thing about them - especially when I think they know better.
What if I have a great sounding 335 and a kid with little short arms and little hands that can't even fret a note on it? Are you still going to focus on tone as if it's the only thing that matters? It's not limited to tone by those that know there are many things that make a great guitar. ( yes, "fit" is one)
Yes that is an extreme scenario but a good example.
Again and just my opinion that you don't obviously share, didn't read or didn't understand; I think many considerations of the guitar are relevant to the recognition by the player - in post #66. 
 
To your question of or uncertainty of guitar pricing; 
If we surmise that the manufacturers are "padding" price on instruments because there is no difference between models such as comparing a Squire Strat to an AM Deluxe Strat then wouldn't the fact that they are and have been competing successfully in a very competitive market for many years mean that in fact they are very good at pricing their product line and offering at the least fair market value? Not to mention that you have used a manufacturer for your post that was one of the biggest in starting the market for electric guitars. 
 
As for questioning how SRV would sound playing different models ...  unfortunately you can't tell him BUT you could always send a note to David Gilmour and ask him why he doesn't just play a Squire. Change his pickups and be good to go. 
 
IF one is going to take a $99.00 dollar guitar and put $130.00 pickups (Fender Texas Specials you unknowingly suggested)  on it they may want to check into pricing the rest of the electronic components and other pertinent components that are "upgrades" that they may have previously thought didn't exist and was just price padding. ( of course when it comes to messin' 'round with "partscasters" or whatever there is a cost for knowledge gained. Cost for amount learned I would think varies between people. I personally learned a great deal from building "partscasters" and without regrets.)
 
David there are many things that make a good guitar that many players don't recognize. Maybe they will in time, maybe not. There is a lot of very good information and easy access to it as we know but since it's not filtered information there is a lot that is not correct. As with anything when it comes time to spending money, that is hard earned for most, it pays to do research. It takes time and effort. It helps to have someone that knows the "right questions". It's hard to get answers when one doesn't know the questions.
 
That's what I've tried to do here- in the past and still. I try to help others get the correct answers and I try to learn how to ask my questions correctly. Hope I've helped you with how I see some things about guitars. (not saying I'm good at either...but I'm still trying)
 
 
Michael
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Michael,
 
Your concentration on tone, or at least your interpretation of MY yearning for good tone  is a little too influenced by marketing.  It's immediately apparent to any musician that producing a good tone is essential.  The idea that's it's the most important thing is unfathomable to anybody who's studied an instrument for any length of time.  I remember the first time my teacher let me try something on his Velazquez that I had been trying to play on my cheap yamaha classical.  A whole new world opened up.
 
It's one of many things that affects the overall presentation of one's performance.  It's easier.  There are a lot fewer frustrations.
 
Artists realize that in order to make a living one has to align oneself with various manufacturers.  The one's not sponsored (yet) are not concerned with those frustrations you speak of.  The marketing can be a real stumbling block to artistic development.  There are better things to worry about.  
 
 
 
 

eph221
Michael,
 
Your concentration on tone.  There are better things to worry about.  
 

You are the one that was concentrated on tone. It was your worry.
 
I don't worry about things. I evaluate the different properties of guitar parts to further my education in the construction of. 
 
You obviously have issues with subjects and keeping focus conversing about them. I have tried a couple of times and will try no more. 
 
Good luck with your music endeavors David.
 
 

Let it go grrl.

Moshkito

eph221
... There are those who are ruled by money...very selfish people (as any adult will tell you).  
...

My biggest gripe has always been watching a musician, think that he sounds better because he is playing a 5K Martin, than a $200 dollar bobodud. As if the quality of the song itself and the singer, improves because of the instrument, and that is an illusion ... and though some of us that do studio stuff may disagree, in the end, you and I both can not tell if that is a Stradivarius, or just Jean-Luc Ponty. 
 
It's not the instrument ... it's the person behind it ... and anyone thinking that only his/her instrument does it for them ... I don't know ... I don't see Peter Hammill with 10K guitars, and he does just fine.
 
It can't be the instrument alone!

While a great guitar won't make you a better player, a great guitar played by a good player will usually sound better live, play easier, and record better. I'm fortunate enough to own an expensive Martin. I had it custom made and picked it up at the Martin factory myself. After getting it home and playing it for awhile, it's very obvious that it's a high quality instrument. It plays beautifully, stays in tune for days and records better than any others I own, some of which are pretty nice guitars also. It makes virtually any song I play better in that I'm not thinking about how well the guitar sounds. It just does. That makes the performance better because I'm focused on the song itself.
 
I've also got a partscaster that I built about 10 years ago. I spent at least 6 months considering the build. Body, neck, fret board wood. Pickups, wiring, routing, hardware. When complete it costs more than a Custom Shop Strat. When it was ready to play for the first time, I damn near cried. It played and sounded better than any Strat I had ever owned and I've had some nice ones. I've had some really talented guys in the studio, with some rare Strats, say they wished they were left handed so they could play mine, because of the tone. Even through their amp and their settings it sounds better than theirs.
 
As for someone playing a $5000 guitar and thinking it makes them sound better. It does. Eric Clapton doesn't need Martins money to play a Martin. He plays it because it plays and sounds better.

I think donald rumsfeld said it best about guitars:
 
There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know.

eph221
I think Bapu said it best about the FSF:
 
There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know.

 
Coffee Housed.

I know that I can certainly tell the difference between a Custom Shop Strat and a Squier. Even after I gut it and replace all of the electronics. For any one the can not, I have a Squier that I will trade you.

Michael, you are spot on again in all of your comments.

Thank you Michael. The electric guitar is such a great instrument. I love playing, talking about them and building them. It's so intriguing to me.

spacey
What if I have a great sounding 335 and a kid with little short arms and little hands that can't even fret a note on it? Are you still going to focus on tone as if it's the only thing that matters? It's not limited to tone by those that know there are many things that make a great guitar.
 

And what makes a guitar great for one person can make it the opposite for someone else. As you say, a key thing being fit and ergonomics. I have the same "problem" as Johnny Winter - I prefer single-coil sound and response for blues playing, but find Fender scale lengths almost a stretch too far at times. His answer to that was Firebirds, mine is to work round it and maybe just do things a bit differently. There are guitars I simply wouldn't even attempt to play some things on and I found out 40 years ago that formal classical guitar technique is well outside my comfort zone.

As for pricing, the biggest gains in quality for money spent generally come in near the lowest end of the price range. The difference between a basic Squire jazz bass and the Made in Mexico equivalent is noticable. The difference between a MIM and US standard is less noticable and the MIM, depending on model, may well be closer in many ways to the "vintage" Fender production methods and materials quality than the price difference might suggest.

Yes, I do think you pay a bit extra for the "Made in USA" tag. Maybe ironically, if you want a Tele or bass made pretty much in the "old way" with vintage oitput pickups etc. most of the US range isn't that. As for Gibson, while their guitars generally involve more labour than Fender, all that shaping, and the lacquer taking quite a lot of time and polishing to get right, much of their range is knowingly priced to exclude most customers - I've seen an interview with Henry J where he pretty much said so.

I think that once you get to the sort of prices Fender, PRS or Gibson attach to their most expensive products you're really looking at something aimed at least as much at wealthy collectors rather than musicians. Fender's relic replicas of some famous person's Strat being one example.

What's often forgotten is that the famous guitarist probably pulled instruments off the rack in the shop until they found one they liked, and the same goes with effects and amps. There was nothing "special" about any of it when it was made, the mystique came along later because the owner was or became famous. And just because e.g. Jeff Back's Strats suit him doesn't mean a replica of one of them will be the best Strat for you because you're not him.