rontarrant

Danny DanziAnyway, something like Prominy may be worth looking at, rontarrant. Personally, you'd be better off just hiring someone to play what you need instead of $400.00 plus expansion packs for that thing. You can ask in the Coffee House forum if anyone would be interested in playing on your piece as well. Quite a few great players who may play on it for free for you.

Thanks, Danny. I'm really not trying to put musicians out of work; I hope I didn't put that idea across. Hell, I made a living as a musician for almost two years, so I'm very much in favour of musicians making a living. It was one of the best times of my life.
Composing on spec puts me in a position where I have to do it all myself as cheaply as possible. Right now, I make far more money as an actor and that ain't saying much.
And you're right, it's not worth buying a $400 plugin when a session guitarist could likely to it for half that, if not less (depending on what's needed, of course). I'd even consider it this time if it wasn't for the complexity of the song. I don't write/read music and so I'd have to get it across with gestures, words and humming. I doubt anyone who even understand me.

No rontarrant, I honestly didn't take it as you putting musicians out of work at all. I was just sharing my experience being in a situation where a piece of software was chosen over me. In that situation, the client lost big time because I wrote a solo section for them that I thought was so cool, I wound up using it for myself. LOL! :)
 
Ah you'd be surprised what the right musician can do for you, rontarrant. My friends and I have made quite a bit of our living listening to people hum, chirp, bark, growl, sing, clap, beat on things and make the weirdest sounds known to man to get their ideas across to us so we could turn them into songs or passages. :) When you have the right musician working with you instead of against you, you always come out with a win. The key to this though....is to trust in who you work with and understand that they are creating a custom part for you even though you may have written it all out.
 
The other important thing (in my opinion) is to allow the musician a little creativity. You'd be surprised what may come out of them that may wind up being better than what you heard in your head. It also lessens the tension on the side of the musician. There's nothing worse than having someone breathing down your neck saying "it must be played like this". If that's the case, you need to hire a robot or have a programmed guitar line. Then again, for certain passages there is no other way but YOUR way so that is completely understandable.
 
I work with a client that I met through this forum years ago that is so brilliant and above me as a musician, I'm intimidated by her. I like to consider myself pretty decent in this field and no one intimidates me. But this gal is just an anomaly. She's very precise in what she wants to the point of writing the parts out for me both in midi and giving me a score to read from. HOWEVER......she has NEVER stifled my creativity and always tells me to play whatever I feel is best based on the lines I've been given. "This is what I hear, now Danny-ise it!" It's to the point now that when she does write the lines, she knows how I play and the lines sound like stuff that I would do anyway. :) She wants me to add my own style to it or she would have never called on me. This is really important because if it were any other way, I would probably decline to work with her. If I can't be myself and help to create someone's masterpiece, I'd rather not be a part of it because then music is no longer fun to me. I don't need the money that bad to become a puppet on a string, ya know? This is also why I'll never be a session player. LOL!
 
So if you do decide to hire someone (which I think would be a great idea if your vision is that intense) definitely stick to your vision but also consider allowing them to show you what THEY feel as well. It may wind up being better or it could inspired you to build on things differently. Best of luck! :)
 
-Danny

There were many times that I would bring a song to the band and know how I wanted all of it to go. But when they heard me play the song, and started playing along I was like, "Whoa! I never would have thought of that!" and it brought the song to a new level.
 
 

Grem
 
Step recording with it may be an option. But I am thinking the learning curve and xpacks would really start adding up to "Is this really worth it?"

That's what I was thinking.   
 
I thought the results were very good.   But the time & effort needed to learn (and practice) the keyswitches well enough to trigger them cleanly, in real time?  Now there's a time commitment!

jeebustrain

indravayu
As a guitarist, this thread depresses me.

Heh, as a drummer, the 9000 other threads about drum machines, midi patterns, and drum sound replacement do the same. Fortunately, I've moved on.

I suppose all musicians (except singers and maybe keyboard players) will eventually be replaced by VST instruments.

Real musicians playing real instruments will never be replaced. Cause that's when the real magic happens!

indravayu
As a guitarist, this thread depresses me.

LOL I feel the same way but couldn't bring myself to say anything.

I find this thread pretty interesting, and I am a guitarist. Just like the OP, a technical limited one, but with a lot of imagination (and a great lead guitarist in my band) It will be interesting how this will turn out...I am thinking of playing some wild stuff on my guitar, letting melodyne quantisize it and squeezed in a certain harmony (f.i. like C-major etc), and see what turns out! 

rontarrant

jeebustrain

indravayu
As a guitarist, this thread depresses me.

Heh, as a drummer, the 9000 other threads about drum machines, midi patterns, and drum sound replacement do the same. Fortunately, I've moved on.

I suppose all musicians (except singers and maybe keyboard players) will eventually be replaced by VST instruments.

From my point of view (I'm strictly an amateur, though), it's already there. There's so much that I see these days on forums and such (I'm also a keyboardist), where everything is canned and synthesized. I get that drums are probably about the easiest instrument to "cheat" with, if all you're doing is copping a specific groove. But the life isn't there. Unfortunately, that's "good enough" for most of the DAW composers I run into these days. To me it all sounds flat and lifeless. I'd rather multitrack my drums and deal with an imperfect (amateur) mix with timing that is not 100% to the grid, than have to listen to ****ty hihat samples and lifeless snare drums (yes, they ALL sound fake to me, even the $$$$ plugins). One instrument I don't play, however, is guitar. I use guitar patches on my synths, mostly just for subtle textural effects. I leave the "riffing" to traditional synthesizer sounds. To me, that's "good enough." I get razzed from my guitar player/composer friends because it doesn't sound enough like a real guitar. My response is their EZ/Addictive Drum whatever plugins sound fake as well and I will start using real guitar players when they start using real drummers :)
 
Although I believe I'm drifting a bit off topic...

jeebustrain

rontarrant

jeebustrain

indravayu
As a guitarist, this thread depresses me.

Heh, as a drummer, the 9000 other threads about drum machines, midi patterns, and drum sound replacement do the same. Fortunately, I've moved on.

I suppose all musicians (except singers and maybe keyboard players) will eventually be replaced by VST instruments.

From my point of view (I'm strictly an amateur, though), it's already there. There's so much that I see these days on forums and such (I'm also a keyboardist), where everything is canned and synthesized. I get that drums are probably about the easiest instrument to "cheat" with, if all you're doing is copping a specific groove. But the life isn't there. Unfortunately, that's "good enough" for most of the DAW composers I run into these days. To me it all sounds flat and lifeless. I'd rather multitrack my drums and deal with an imperfect (amateur) mix with timing that is not 100% to the grid, than have to listen to ****ty hihat samples and lifeless snare drums (yes, they ALL sound fake to me, even the $$$$ plugins). One instrument I don't play, however, is guitar. I use guitar patches on my synths, mostly just for subtle textural effects. I leave the "riffing" to traditional synthesizer sounds. To me, that's "good enough." I get razzed from my guitar player/composer friends because it doesn't sound enough like a real guitar. My response is their EZ/Addictive Drum whatever plugins sound fake as well and I will start using real guitar players when they start using real drummers :)
 
Although I believe I'm drifting a bit off topic...

you're drifting, but why not! I rather have some life in my drum tracks as well - there is no such thing as the real thing! but man, my attempts to capture a good drum track in our rehearsal room sucked...until I can afford to get all the mics etc, drum plug ins must work for me. of course, only as the second best choice. right now, my favorite drum machine is even the free hydrogen, kit "black metal" (sic!) it sounds 100 percent as a machine, it does not even try to act as a real drummer. but boy its got power!

Dude Ivey
Real musicians playing real instruments will never be replaced. Cause that's when the real magic happens!

Well said, Dude. I was a bit depressed yesterday, so please forgive the silly thing I said.