• SONAR
  • Event List Behavior (p.2)
2017/12/26 15:23:44
konradh
I don't understand if you are saying that the time of the event changes, or if you just don't like the order Sonar displays events with the same time.
 
Like bitflipper, I put controllers a few ticks ahead of notes.  Same for keyswitches.
 
You especially need to be careful where you place pitch wheel commands.
 
I use event list for a number of things:
1-When I put it a series of controllers or pitch wheel changes, I often need to highlight the range and use CAL to thin them out.  I want to see what I am doing so I don't edit or delete any important "anchors," like starting volume, ending volume, pitch wheel=0, pitch wheel-4096, etc.
2-When setting up some instruments, I edit controller values.  For example, I use controllers for RealGuitar to control whether it is in strumming mode, solo mode, which chord positions I want it to use, etc.
3-When something sounds weird and I can't figure out what's wrong, Event List can be very helpful.
2017/12/26 15:23:44
konradh
I don't understand if you are saying that the time of the event changes, or if you just don't like the order Sonar displays events with the same time.
 
Like bitflipper, I put controllers a few ticks ahead of notes.  Same for keyswitches.
 
You especially need to be careful where you place pitch wheel commands.
 
I use event list for a number of things:
1-When I put it a series of controllers or pitch wheel changes, I often need to highlight the range and use CAL to thin them out.  I want to see what I am doing so I don't edit or delete any important "anchors," like starting volume, ending volume, pitch wheel=0, pitch wheel-4096, etc.
2-When setting up some instruments, I edit controller values.  For example, I use controllers for RealGuitar to control whether it is in strumming mode, solo mode, which chord positions I want it to use, etc.
3-When something sounds weird and I can't figure out what's wrong, Event List can be very helpful.
2017/12/26 16:59:45
michael diemer
Good point, Konrad. I just assumed that if the CC event  was after the first note (even though displaying the same time), it would therefore not affect that note. Here's an example of what I'm talking about, in simplified form:
 
C#        
Volume change, CC11=90     
F                   (Time=49.01.00  for all) 
Bb
etc
 
The CC event, which used to be before all notes, is now positioned after the first note, after I did something, like copy/paste or drag & drop. I was assuming that it did not affect the first note (C#). but you seem to be saying that it does not matter, as long as the CC event has the same time value. 
 
I do change the timing of CC events when this occurs, putting it in the previous measure, if blank. If I can't do that, I've been deleting the event and reinserting it.
 
I can try ignoring these when they occur, and try to see if it makes a difference.
 

Maybe I'm just being obsessive.
2017/12/26 17:04:07
michael diemer
Cactus Music
The thing is, I don't think anybody uses the event list for editing. Everything can be done in the PRV. 
The event list is from the most early versions of Cakewalk. It is not even included with Home Studio. 
Other options are drawing a CC10 event in PRV or the audio / instrument track. 


No problem, I'm used to people telling me I do things the wrong way. After all, I'm one of those pesky critters who use Staff View, and was always advocating for improvements. No need for that now, of course.
2017/12/26 17:53:54
Cactus Music
As I said, I hope you don't think I was bashing you for using it, I was just saying how most people probably don't even know it's there and only use PRV.  I'm just saying how crude Sonars event list is compaired to what I had in Dr T on the Atari in 1984.   
The event list on Dr T had full editing functions, you could perform just about everything including quantize, thin controller data and on and on. 
 
And I find it odd that things like Program change are not there as I'm forever having issues with patchs on download files. 
2017/12/26 21:09:16
michael diemer
I don't think you were bashing me, just that you were assuming, like most do, that everyone uses PRV, and no one uses Event (or for that matter), Staff view. The old "I don't do it that way, I don't know anyone who does it that way, therefore nobody does it that way" mindset. I know there was nothing negative there. Don't worry about it, you've been a very helpful friend here. Too bad it's all going away soon. That, more than anything, caused me to let a little frustration seep through. 
2017/12/26 21:52:43
bvideo
The volume event is meant to modify everything that is already playing on that channel at that moment, not just the notes that follow. For a synth on the end of a MIDI cable playing a patch with a very sharp attack, followed by an extreme volume change, it is theoretically possible hear a glitch at the beginning of the first note. Then again, extreme volume changes are already a glitch. On a midi cable, the events can arrive up to a millisecond apart. So depending on the order they are sent, there could be some audio consequence. It's a lot less likely identically timestamped events would cause a problem in a softsynth.
 
I don't think we have any control over the exact order except by giving them separate time stamps. But there's an experiment for you. Using a patch that has a very sharp attack, throw in an big volume change one MIDI tick later versus one tick earlier and see if you can hear something wrong. For any patch that doesn't have a fast attack, it's very unlikely to hear any difference.
2017/12/27 02:04:08
michael diemer
Thanks bvideo, Your explanation makes perfect sense. I'm going to just stop worrying about them. Unless I do hear a real difference. What a bummer when this great forum is gone. There will be nothing to replace it. It's truly the end of an era.
2017/12/27 06:00:25
Cactus Music
Well I hope those of us who continue to use Sonar can stay in one place. Looks like there are 2 new forums with I think Bapu's looking promising. I'm guilty of joining both but that was weeks ago when the S H The Fan  I hope I book marked them. 
Then the other half will be spread across the internet with many it seems at the Presonus forum. I already belong to Steinberg forum for years now because of Wave Lab and compared to this one it's a cold dead duck. I waited 3 days for a reply to a simple question and only got one answer. I gave up and have never returned. 
There's also a pathetic little sub forum on Gear slutz with about a once a week post. 
This forum is visibly dying. 
First there are no new members and no more yapping about the latest updates, a big part of life here in the past. 
2017/12/27 17:39:39
michael diemer
I agree about the Steinberg forum. Nowhere near as helpful as this place. I have also noticed that the activity here is starting to die down. After the announcement, people were really circling the wagons. Now, with folks moving on, you can see the difference. I was spending like an hour here after the announcement, now i't more like 20 minutes. Sad. This has always been my favorite forum, even during my elopement with Reaper. (I'm now re-engaging with Studio 8.5. Producer was messed up for some reason, maybe a bad install disc).
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