thedreampolice
 
Those that have used Note Expression, is it a big enough of a deal to look in to Cubase for? Lots of my friends seem to be raving about it, obviously I don't have anything like that in Reason now. But if I am buying another tool to get better sounds I really want to think this through. 

I'm relatively new to Cubase but what I absolutely love is that you can call up different articulations from a menu and insert it in the score or PRV.  That frees me from the tyranny of keyswitches.    For large libraries like EWQL it's great since I don't have to mess up the score with extra notes and I can easily eyeball where all my articulation changes are and WHAT they are.  Also you can have controllers attached to single notes.  Very cool.  If you use notation there is no comparison, Cubase is the way to go.  If not there are pros and cons to both.

I dunno, I am not overly impressed with the Note Expression thing. Just a different way of looking at controller data in my opinion. Also some of the stuff they talk about is only for VST3 or 3.5 instruments which is pretty much just Halion at this point, all the VST instruments I've tried are VST2. At any rate the specific Note Expression interface is Cubase only so if you are sold on that, then Cubase it is.
 
In terms of Core Audio, that is mostly fluff. Windows does have an equivalent, WDM/KS, that is the native, direct streaming mode for Windows cards. Sonar supports it. However as a practical matter most pro cards prefer ASIO so you might as well use that. Remember this is all just a way to access the audio card directly so the details aren't important. Apple likes to sell their stuff as really cool, of course, but it is just an audio API like ASIO, and ASIO really is far and away the thing most stuff likes.
 
In terms of money, well Macs are expensive, there is no way around that. The new cylindrical Mac Pro is going to be stupid expensive on account of the two high end graphics cards they are soldering in to it and the workstation motherboards and CPUs they use. PCs are cheaper in particular because you can get desktop components, rather than workstation components. So if economical is what you want, a PC is it.

I have not needed notation at all since college years ago and I feel if I did for a project I would just export the midi parts from whatever DAW I was using in to Sibelius anyway, so notation TO ME is not a big deal either, but that articulation stuff sounds pretty darn nice. I bet X4 will having something like that in it. The Cubase UI on the other hand has gotten pretty messy it seems and that seems like a big deal to me so its a trade off maybe. Oh and Pad shop looks fantastic! Also I do know my way around Windows pretty darn well (IT guy in a former life) so keeping windows up and running is no big deal, I PERSONALLY like Apple's design ethos better, but at the end of the day I need the tool to work for my needs regardless. 
 
As far as the WDM stuff, core Audio/Midi is actually much better than even ASIO, there is a bunch of routing you can do in the OS itself as well as aggregate devices that Windows just can't do at all. But I don't use those features much at all.

thedreampolice
.. I have been deciding between Cubase and Sonar. I HATE dongles, so Cubase may get ruled out and I have been playing with a Demo of Sonar and I LOVE the skylight interface...

When I was researching DAWs last year, I wittled it down to Cubase and Sonar. I did the 30 day trial for both products. They seemed to have similiar features, etc. I was totaling turned off on the Dongle thingy (so 70s!). Thank you Cubase for helping me make the decision because of the Dongle thingy. I am very happy with Sonar.
 
Walt
 

I think notation enhancements might be coming to Sonar in the not too distant future. People have been clamoring for notation upgrades. That said, I would think they have a lot of work ahead of them to catch up with some of the other notation apps out there. It's hard to know what they might be thinking for the future.
 
I like the app as it is. Sonar has always been more than I need. -- Stable > Full of possibilities > annually adding new features and toys.
 
The Video has worked well for me when I use it (I don't use it professionally but still... the videos are pretty great). You need some codec skill if you are going to try to get it to work in odd formats. I can be mainstream so it's plenty enough for me. I think it works great at high quality. People who are trying to post to YouTube may find it overkill (although there is some new YouTube feature I haven't tried yet in X3).

WallyG

thedreampolice
.. I have been deciding between Cubase and Sonar. I HATE dongles, so Cubase may get ruled out and I have been playing with a Demo of Sonar and I LOVE the skylight interface...

When I was researching DAWs last year, I wittled it down to Cubase and Sonar. I did the 30 day trial for both products. They seemed to have similiar features, etc. I was totaling turned off on the Dongle thingy (so 70s!). Thank you Cubase for helping me make the decision because of the Dongle thingy. I am very happy with Sonar.
 
Walt
 

Steinberg is actually working on a dongle-free system but they don't know when it will be done.

gswitz
I think notation enhancements might be coming to Sonar in the not too distant future. People have been clamoring for notation upgrades. That said, I would think they have a lot of work ahead of them to catch up with some of the other notation apps out there. It's hard to know what they might be thinking for the future.
 
 

Notation will never be addressed in Sonar.  They haven't done anything meaningful in almost 20 years.  It's not going to happen.

Never say never

In all fairness I think you're gonna get mostly pro-Sonar comments in a Sonar forum, and in some cases downplay of Cubase selling points.
I haven't used Cubase's note expression but from the demos I saw and what I've read, it seems a great feature and one that would be welcome in Sonar, somewhat akin to what ARA does for Melodyne integration. If I quantize my midi performance (shudder), I would like to move the controller data (such as pitch bends and modulation) with it. Right now, that doesn't happen. I would like to set different controller values per note (although this of course depends on the synth supporting that or not), right now I can't. These are limitations of the midi spec and it is a good thing that Steinberg is finally kicking against it. We've already started to see changes in this area in general, such as the OSC protocol gaining in popularity.
 
That said, I don't really MISS it right now. I find ways around it. We found ways to use Melodyne without ARA too. It was just more work, and you couldn't do all of the same things.
 
Most modern mainstream DAWs are somewhat comparable in function, but they all do and show things in a subtly different way. I would go with the one where the workflow and look of things seems to click most with you. The best DAW is the one where you know which button to press.

I started in tape-based studios in the OLD days! When all the studios jumped to digital I had to really scramble around and learn quickly in order to maintain my position. I have worked extensively with every DAW you think since 97. In my private studio there is only Sonar. I have been a diehard Cakewalk user for many years. I have stood by and supported Cake products for years. We have had some pretty bad shake ups here and there but it still is the best for my work.
Now the two weaknesses as far as I can see is NOTATION and AUDIO FOR VIDEO. The notation discussion is one we have had going for too long and it still was not addressed. The closest we came was when Cake offered a discount price on Notion. I bought Notion 3 and upgraded to Notion 4. I still use it to this day. But now Presonus owns Notion. I think Cake missed a great a great opportunity to get something going there with the notation problems but they saw fit to let it go.
Video handling is supposed to be addressed in an X3 patch here pretty soon. Or that's what they say. I would love to be able to use only one DAW for my work. It is such a pain to work in one and then have to render it and throw it somewhere else to finish.
Bang for the buck, you will not find a better product! The synths are high quality. And now with the additions in X3, you are pretty set to go right out of the box. If you can't make some music with this product then you are in dire straits.
One more thing. I have had an occasional hiccup here and there with some of the older products. Since 8.5, I have not had one crash, bsod, or freeze.
I know I sound like a fan boy! I don't care! Cakes products and staff in support have been wonderful to me for a long time. I'm glad I get a chance to say THANKS,CAKE!