Noel, you posted the following explanation.
  "Regarding lists of fixes, its actually hard to enumerate deterministically since sometimes there are sweeping changes that change the behavior of the program and make old issues no longer applicable. Also sometimes issues are logged and fixed within a cycle that may or may not apply to prior versions."
 
This is a cop out. Your beta testers could have gone through a bug list, testing each KNOWN issue to see if it could still be reproduced. If it was no longer an issue, why not tell us?
 
"However with the next update we will be listing a large number of issues that we found in our database to be resolved. This is by no means the entire list but it should give people a better idea idea of the areas of change."
 
Why "the next update" and not THIS one? This makes no sense to me, please explain.
It kind of contradicts what you said in the paragraph above. Unless, being a "small" company, CW could not afford a more rigorous beta cycle. If that is the case, why not solicit some of the more aggressive users to do beta testing.
 
 

jimusic

Subjacent
Okay I am off to test the x3 hype, its only money. 
 
Gone and done it 

OK - didn't see this before my last post above about the base version.
 
But curious now - which version did you get?

X2 too X3 Producer, just finished downloading, and the way I have to look at it is still a step up, so cant be all that bad, not that I ever suggested its bad, just wonky in places lol , Still looking forward to it, now doubt I will at it until the early hours, as I have a piece of work well on the way that will benefit from melodyne and no need to bounce from daw too daw, so happy days in that department.

jatoth
 
why not solicit some of the more aggressive users to do beta testing. 

I have proven I almost nearly on the way to being an aggressive user once I get going in the first place, will that count for that job of beta testing, I can pull a really nasty face too if that helps lol.  just saying 
 

I'm not sure how CW operates, but the software company I work for runs into the same type of things that Noel described.   If a bug never existed in a commercial version but was still fixed in that next release, it should be excluded because it never really saw the light of day.  Or perhaps it did exist previously but no one (literally) ever reported it.  And you also have bugs that are not outright fixed per se, but rather they cease to exist due to other factors.  
 
There can be a lot of overhead involved with getting the "data entry" bits and pieces in place that have no effect on the software.  So creating a "sanitized" list from these many scenarios can be very time consuming, and is something that my company doesn't do for that reason.  So perhaps the bakers knew that the list couldn't be ready in time for release but weren't about to hold up X3 for it.   Honestly, based on the feedback I've seen here and my own two days worth of experience, I think they made the right decision.
 
So here's to whatever the next patch is and the beginning of a deeper look into the inner workings of X3.   I may not need this list as others do, but I still find it useful and very interesting.
 

I was on the fence with X3, but comping sold me.  Let's face it, Sonar needed to get this feature in there, a lot of the competitors had it, and Sonar had to get it in there.  Speaking personally the X2 take lanes were a bit of a disappointment and needed fixing, I can appreciate the time spent fixing this feature.  And how about the ability to choose (or not choose) to group clips in folders?  These might be subtle changes, but they save hours worth of time.
 
The other features are icing on the cake.  I do appreciate the quad curve EQ improvements which is probably my second favorite feature, I used to use Analyst along side Sonitus EQ, but now I'm using quad curve exclusively, and everything is right there.
 
I tend to be an upgrade junkie because I like to keep up with things, and I also like to take advantage of the savings you get when keeping up with a product.  I still have X2 on my system as a safety shield, but I really haven't run into many problems in X3, and I'm impressed with how stable it is.  On X2, I would have audio dropouts sometimes when changing screen sets.

I totally agree.  Plus the upgrade price is not much IMHO.  All this research, development and improvement for the cost of what - a pair of nice shoes?  a great meal for two?
 

Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
So you don't think a full blown new comping mode, support for 3 new standards VST3, ARA and Gobbler, Prochannel improvements, redesigned color customization, as well as huge plugin workflow enhancements do not constitute a massive upgrade? All of these features impact pretty much every user in some way and were picked because they are not niche features but solid useful tools for every DAW user. Regarding the 3'rd party stuff they are 100% value adds. They take zero development time from us, other than some minor support issues and bug fixes and obviously release management. So its not like taking those out would have magically bought other features you wanted. 
 
If not you have some pretty unrealistic assumptions about what goes into building software. Every one has different ideas about what would be ideal features for their specific workflow. We pick features that would have the most impact on our larger user base. If anything I think X3 hits home here much more than any other version since it tackles the basics - recording, editing, plugins, and customization. Most users would agree that this is very close to what the majority of people wanted. Cakewalk is a small company and we have very finite resources so we have to spend our time wisely..

Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
 
Even if we took out all all the plugins from the package, its still a compelling upgrade.

I'm not complaining about anything here, from my point of view it looks like X3 might finally tempt me out of 8.5PE into the X series for the first time - still waiting for box set upgrades info in UK (FYI nobody seems to have any idea what's happening from my enquiries to retailers) but I do understand the views of those who just want the fixes / improvements and aren't bothered by another drum synth / fx bundle. Maybe future releases could be x amount for a previous version owners programme improvements/upgrades download and y amount for the "with extra toys" version, which should help you even more to achieve your stated aim of trying to please as many people as possible ?

jatoth
Noel, you posted the following explanation.
  "Regarding lists of fixes, its actually hard to enumerate deterministically since sometimes there are sweeping changes that change the behavior of the program and make old issues no longer applicable. Also sometimes issues are logged and fixed within a cycle that may or may not apply to prior versions."
 
This is a cop out. Your beta testers could have gone through a bug list, testing each KNOWN issue to see if it could still be reproduced. If it was no longer an issue, why not tell us?
 
"However with the next update we will be listing a large number of issues that we found in our database to be resolved. This is by no means the entire list but it should give people a better idea idea of the areas of change."
 
Why "the next update" and not THIS one? This makes no sense to me, please explain.
It kind of contradicts what you said in the paragraph above. Unless, being a "small" company, CW could not afford a more rigorous beta cycle. If that is the case, why not solicit some of the more aggressive users to do beta testing.

It will make sense soon enough. Very soon enough. We just don't list bugfix lists as part of the marketing campaign for new products. We told everyone that X3a, on the other hand, provided a lot of fixes and that an patch to the update would be available for disc customers very soon (since it's already available for download customers). We're going to highlight some of the notable fixes that made it into X3 in general very shortly that the general public might be happy to know about.
 

stevec
I'm not sure how CW operates, but the software company I work for runs into the same type of things that Noel described.   If a bug never existed in a commercial version but was still fixed in that next release, it should be excluded because it never really saw the light of day.  Or perhaps it did exist previously but no one (literally) ever reported it.  And you also have bugs that are not outright fixed per se, but rather they cease to exist due to other factors.  
 
There can be a lot of overhead involved with getting the "data entry" bits and pieces in place that have no effect on the software.  So creating a "sanitized" list from these many scenarios can be very time consuming, and is something that my company doesn't do for that reason.  So perhaps the bakers knew that the list couldn't be ready in time for release but weren't about to hold up X3 for it.   Honestly, based on the feedback I've seen here and my own two days worth of experience, I think they made the right decision.
 
So here's to whatever the next patch is and the beginning of a deeper look into the inner workings of X3.   I may not need this list as others do, but I still find it useful and very interesting.

Indeed. There's a lot of work digging into this stuff. I know first hand since I have to deal with it :)
 
People are often quick to point out all the things we should be doing without necessarily knowing what's going on behind the scenes or whether or not the suggestion actually is a better one in practice. All things considered, I think we have an extremely well implemented bug tracking system. As Noel pointed out, some bullet points incoming soon.
 

Ryan Munnis [Cakewalk]
 
Indeed. There's a lot of work digging into this stuff. I know first hand since I have to deal with it :)
 

Oh, I know.   I've only attempted limited selections myself, but it isn't something I would personally want to do on a regular basis.  Tedious would be an understatement.   

To OP:
On #3:Audio Warp issue.... 
If I'm understanding you correctly, I use a series of "Set Measure/Beat at Now... Shift-M" placements to accomplish that task. Hope that helps.