• SONAR
  • Erratic waveform displays in main track when using comping
2013/09/30 12:30:37
cparmerlee
First, I love the Comping feature in X3 -- Speed comping is fantastic.
 
But something is very strange.  Audibly, everything is working as expected.  But the waveform displayed on the main track seems to have about 30dB more than it should and it looks like the track is clipping, even though it isn't.  There seems to be some kind of scale problem here.  My hunch is that it is a bug where the various comping lanes are being summed for display purposes, although they are not being summed for the audio output.
 
Has anybody else observed this?
 
It isn't a crisis.  The feature produces the desired results, but the display is just a bit alarming.
2013/09/30 12:34:36
FastBikerBoy
A large waveform in the comp track would suggest there is more than one audible clip at that point in the lanes. That's what I'd check, remember it will still display unless the clip itself is muted. i.e. if the lane is muted it won't sound but will display.
 
That's where I'd check.
2013/09/30 12:42:24
Dan Gonzalez [Cakewalk]
cparmerlee
First, I love the Comping feature in X3 -- Speed comping is fantastic.
 
But something is very strange.  Audibly, everything is working as expected.  But the waveform displayed on the main track seems to have about 30dB more than it should and it looks like the track is clipping, even though it isn't.  There seems to be some kind of scale problem here.  My hunch is that it is a bug where the various comping lanes are being summed for display purposes, although they are not being summed for the audio output.
 
Has anybody else observed this?
 
It isn't a crisis.  The feature produces the desired results, but the display is just a bit alarming.


 
Could you post a picture of what you mean? I'm taking a look at it right now and just want to be sure as to what the issue looks like exactly.
2013/09/30 13:22:56
tKx5050
OT - Carl, I'm downloading your X3 video. Doing my part to help get that bike out of the shop.
 
Steve
2013/09/30 16:02:05
cparmerlee
FastBikerBoy
A large waveform in the comp track would suggest there is more than one audible clip at that point in the lanes. That's what I'd check, remember it will still display unless the clip itself is muted. i.e. if the lane is muted it won't sound but will display.
 
That's where I'd check.



What you are describing may be exactly what is happening, but that's not what I would have expected.  When comping, the feature automatically mutes all the lanes except for the chosen clip.  So they are not "audible", meaning you hear only one lane's worth of audio and that is not clipping.  But the main track's waveform display seems to sum the other lanes and that loops like it is clipping.  But it isn't completely predictable -- at least no pattern I have been able to discern.  (With software there is ALWAYS a pattern, even if the pattern is not obvious,)
2013/09/30 16:13:45
FastBikerBoy
tKx5050
OT - Carl, I'm downloading your X3 video. Doing my part to help get that bike out of the shop.
 
Steve




Thanks for the support. I have fallen off my bike more times this summer than I have the last ten years so I need all the help I can get.
2013/09/30 16:30:41
cparmerlee
Dan Gonzalez [Cakewalk]
Could you post a picture of what you mean? I'm taking a look at it right now and just want to be sure as to what the issue looks like exactly.

 On that particular project, I did revome all muted clips and then flattened the comp.  At that point, the display looked right.  In other words, I would not expect the main track's waveform to change at all when you issue the "remove muted" or "flatten" commands, but it definitely did.  I would have thought the main track's waveform would always correspond with "What U Hear", so to speak.
 
I went back to an earlier version to reproduce a screen shot.  This somewhat contradicts my theory in a previous post as the clipping values sometimes start in the middle of a segment.  Notice where the time cursor is.  At that point, it appears the volume is much louder, and distorting.  But in fact, there is no such change in the sound.  The sound is as one would expect from looking at the T4 clip.  I should be clear here, there are only two take lanes.  I had already deleted T1 and T2.  You are looking at the entire track.
2013/09/30 17:00:21
Dan Gonzalez [Cakewalk]
cparmerlee
Dan Gonzalez [Cakewalk]
Could you post a picture of what you mean? I'm taking a look at it right now and just want to be sure as to what the issue looks like exactly.

On that particular project, I did revome all muted clips and then flattened the comp.  At that point, the display looked right.  In other words, I would not expect the main track's waveform to change at all when you issue the "remove muted" or "flatten" commands, but it definitely did.  I would have thought the main track's waveform would always correspond with "What U Hear", so to speak.
 
I went back to an earlier version to reproduce a screen shot.  This somewhat contradicts my theory in a previous post as the clipping values sometimes start in the middle of a segment.  Notice where the time cursor is.  At that point, it appears the volume is much louder, and distorting.  But in fact, there is no such change in the sound.  The sound is as one would expect from looking at the T4 clip.  I should be clear here, there are only two take lanes.  I had already deleted T1 and T2.  You are looking at the entire track.


Would you be able to send me a bundle file so that I could take a look at it and dissect the problem?  I can't reproduce this on my end.
2013/09/30 21:46:32
stevec
I wonder if the WOV files could be coming into play...   If you clear the picture cache does the track redraw the same?  
 
This is assuming, of course, that the comps are handled the same way - no idea since I don't have X3 yet.  
 
 
2013/09/30 21:55:17
cparmerlee
One factor that may contribute to the problem is that I think the first take lane was recorded with the sound-on-sound take lanes option. The documentation says that comping is supposed to be selected by default, but it wasn't in my case.  So perhaps some mode got set, and then I switched to comping behavior.  It looks as if the waveform might be randomly choosing to sum the values.
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