I didn't buy Sonar 3 PE with the intent to score films, but some people I know are making a movie and are looking for a composer. I want to make sure I don't have to go buy thousands of $ worth of equipment and software before I approach them.

I have tried my hand at a little scoring with Sonar and it seems to work fine. But there are a lot of technical details I need to know. For instance, I've heard from composers that the framerate is EXTREMELY important. The music needs to be sync'd with the framerate or the music and visuals will be off from one another. Is Sonar equipped to handle this kind of stuff?

These guys are creating their first movie ever, so I'm not sure how "professional" they are. But as someone who's NOT a film scorer I'd like your input and any site or book references you might have for someone like myself. Thanks!

EDIT: I have some high-quality sample libraries I'll be using like EWQLSO Gold and Spectrasonics' "Distorted Reality 2". I know these are used in a lot of scores and I'd like to learn how exactly they're using them.

Also, if you'd like to see my first-ever scored movie scene, check this out: Running From Shivers. It's a scene from a movie scored by Chad Seiter who graciously lent me this scene to try on my own.

EDIT: my music starts at 1:37:50

I'm about to undertake a similar task, and I do know that Sonar has SMPTE locking features. I also know that in the past you needed a VCR and a converter of some sort to display the SMPTE time code. Whether that is still I'm unsure of. I do know that Sonar has an import video mode, but I'm sure you'd need a very powerful computer with a lot of memory to play back the video, samples and score simultaneously, even if you have the video's file size and screen resolution reduced. When i find out more, I'll let you know.

Sonar is not ideal for scoring to picture, but it works. One thing to watch out for is that Sonar has no ability to lock clips to a timecode location. If you have (for example) sound effects along with your music, and you want to adjust the music's tempo, your sound effects will move in time since they are associated with bars:beats. If you're only doing the music, this shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Have the filmmakers send you a video file if they can. Quicktime Sorensen 3 works well, or motion jpeg, or mpeg. And get 2 pops at the beginning and end. As long as the two pops always line up, you know you are in sync. A 2 pop is a 1 frame long 'beep' 2 seconds before the program starts, and 2 seconds after the program ends. 1 kHz, -18 dB FS sine wave. (the actual level will vary depending on the studio. Could be -20 -24 or anything really...) 2 pops are lifesavers--if you know nothing else about the file just make sure you get the 2 pops.

Having them burn a timecode window into the video file will help as well. And make sure that you know what frame rate you're going to be dealing with and sample rate, usually 48kHz, and if you have to deal with pullup. Sonar can deal with just about every frame rate you're going to encounter. Hopefully they're not shooting HD at 23.976 fps which Sonar has yet to support.

tarsier I've done a fair number of scores with Sonar, but did not know about that 2 pops trick. Can you explain it a bit more. It sounds like a great trick.

Yup, Tarsier, I too have just gotten into film scoring...any more details would be truly priceless!

It's the same as using the clap board. What Tarsier is saying is have the audio "pop" come with the video in order that you can ensure that your audio matches the timing throughout the entire video when you export it back to them to use. You are not going to be working with the actual video in SONAR but only a reference piece. So, you need to ensure your timing matches the timing of the film when they add your audio into the film. Film is shot at 24 frames per second which is different than video which is 29.97 frames per second. As suggested above, if you get them to include the SMTPE time code right on top of the video you can use your BIG TIME window and your video window to ensure their running in sync. The pops (or using the clap board) ensures that the beginning and end match up guaranteeing there was not time drift between the two.

Make sure in your | Options | Project | settings that you choose SMPTE/MTC as your Course and have the proper Timecode fFormat set. As stated, Film is 24 FPS. If their shooting on video and outputting on DVD then it's another story.

Also, in your video window, if you click on the time, you can choose to see the time in SMPTE as you work.

As Tarsier says (and we discussed when we meet last month!) Sonar is missing a few features which would make it suitable for film scoring. Most of the work I do now is Film Scoring and I have to be honest that I struggle with Sonar 4 and have to resort back to syncing Sonar with Digital Perfomer. My biggest wishes for Sonar is that they implement more post features, similar to those in DP and ProTools as I do love Sonar. My main gripe is not being able to scroll by frames in the track view, which is crucial when trying to spot effects. It is possible by using the video view and then swapping back, but this is a real pain.

But then again it is horses for courses. I feel that Sonar is aimed more at production and mixing side of the industry, where as DP and Nuendo are aimed more at the post side. I am not sure where Sonar and Cakewalk are planning to Sonar, but I hope it is in this direction!

Here we call the 2 pop a 'syncplop'! It is crucial that you insert this at the beginning and end of any project, especially when working with timecode. If for example your film starts at 10:00:00:00, then you insert a one frame syncplop at 09:59:58:00. This means that anyone can then line your music up with the video file...no matter what. It also means that if you fade a tune in, there is no issue about where the fade starts. I am sure you can find a syncplop wave on line, or even make one yourself. I tend to scale mine to -12db fullscale.

If you need one, you can download one from my site at www.spencerbruce.com/syncplop-12db.wav

HOpe this helps

All the best

Neil

Storm and brucie covered it well. I just want to add that the 2 pop also includes 1 frame of color bars (or some sort of visual reference) to go along with the 'beep' and video black for two seconds until the program starts. And then at the end, video black for 2 seconds and 1 final frame of color bars with the ending 'beep'. unShackled mentioned that the project is a first-time for the film makers, so they might be happy to know of the 2 pop trick as well. Find some tactful way of asking about it: "Say, what level will you make your 2 pop? My reference is at -12 dB peak." or something like that...

On edit... unShackled also said he was using Sonar 3. When did Cakewalk include full quicktime support? v3 might not be able to open a Sorensen 3 quicktime... I can't remember now, but Sonar 4 plays them back fine.

These guys have said it all....

Sonar is fine at "scoring" films. It's getting better each version. If you are writing music to film, you may also need Vegas. When I get the DVD from the director I import the video in Vegas. From there I cut the film up into scenes and render them as mpegs or avi. At the moment, quicktime is a bit dodgy with Sonar and doesn't seem to always work. From there I mix the tracks in Sonar or Pro Tools. 9 times out of 10 I sync the tracks back up into Vegas or Pro Tools and deliver via Pro Tools. If you deliver via Pro Tools you don't need a two pop. Although it doesn't hurt to have it. Other people leave to movie in Vegas and use MTC to drive it. That works too, but probably eats up a computer to do it correctly.

Now doing sound design would be difficult. I only compose so I am no help there.

Supposedly the next version will allow Sonar to export the video files via firewrie video such as a cannopus advc 100, currently you have to use a Matrox Perehelia card to export video to a big screen or external monitor for client presentation.

Good luck!