Conley,
 
I was making a generic statement based on observations from a decade in this forum that I believe to be true. 
 
There are SO many variables in different software/hardware setups that can take the train off the tracks. And it could be so benign that no other symptoms point to it.
 
I've had a machine that drove me out of my mind over a bad vid card (and I put machines together for living at the time). And I replaced it because it failed at a later point and BAM... all the issues I had went away. So, it is possible, that a component or other program causes issues in Sonar. That said, I don't discredit what you say, but if <10% of users have a specific issue, it logically points to a certain scenario or configuration. And what any of this does NOT do is eliminate your frustration.
 
And for some reason, AMD built systems never did seem to work as well for me as did Intel based systems. I think in part because Cake has a good relationship with Intel and has worked with them closely over the years.
 
My 2 cents.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Andrew, I'd like to take you up on your response from earlier in the thread: now that X3 is out, can we begin discussing some of my questions from earlier in the thread in greater detail? The ones that weren't answered by the X3 information I've seen are:
 
1. Did you guys fix the Disk May Be Full error on record bug? Notice that Guitarmech111 seems to be reporting this exact problem just a few posts ahead of mine. A forum search brings up posts on this going back years.
2. What about how Sonar writes/saves projects so they don't corrupt so easily? Any changes there?
3. What about duplicate notes on quantization? Can I Groove Quantize MIDI consistently without getting duplicate notes?
4. What about the Sonar icon remaining in the tray after a close (which often prevents a new instance from opening without manually shutting down SonarPDR.exe in the task manager)? Was something done to address this one?
 
Note on the above: I've run Sonar on at least 6 different systems over the 10 years (or more) I've had a license , across at least 2 Operating Systems (XP and Win7 - honestly can't remember if Win98 got used for Sonar), and all of those issues have popped up time and time again as far back as I can remember. I've got a well-built (no cheapy components) Intel i7 based system, running Win7 64bit stock (I've probably set the priority to background tasks), running Kingston DDR3 RAM, and an RME Fireface 800 with the most up to date firmware and drivers. I say all that to dispel the "I bet people with problems have cheap or poorly configured systems" myth.
 
5. Did you guys include MP3 encoding for free? If not, point out what hosts require users to pay for this feature. I'm curious because I don't know of any others.
6. Did you improve signal flow to allow for more advanced audio routing? Can I route a VSTi output to an audio input? Again, I'd be curious as to which other major DAW's can't do this if you know of any?
7. Have you updated the Staff View or improved notation?
8. With the plugin architecture rewrite and VST3, will Sonar X3 recognize my mono UAD plugins and use DSP accordingly? 
9. Does Sonar X3 include a dynamically resizable vector based console so I can see the full strips in the dock? From the Skylight video it appears not. Notice how little of the strips are visible when docked, making a dockable console nearly useless.
10. Did you get rid of the annoying pop-up questions when pasting or inserting an instrument track that distract from Workflow?
11. Did you make it easier to quickly add/subtract outputs to a VSTi (a la Studio One)?
12. Did you finally create proper Instrument Tracks that can house MIDI and audio effects? Do they have all the same functionality as the separate MIDI+audio tracks did, just intelligently combined into one?
13. Did you add varispeed playback and recording like Reaper (man that's fun, and great for some Beatles-esque harmonies)?
14. Is VST 2/3 support FINALLY built in and not part of legacy Fxpansion code from their VST wrapper (which we wouldn't have needed if you opted to support VST natively from the get go and not DXi - but I digress)?
15. Will Sonar now always recognize which VST plugins send/receive tempo information, and can send receive MIDI without having to go into a separate plugin Properties window to force Sonar to know when some plugins use these features?
16. Did you simplify the Snap to Grid features which have clearly caused confusion in X2. Snap to Grid used to work great BTW: wasn't broken but it got fixed. 
17. Workflow enhancement question: can I now navigate from plugin to plugin on a channel from within a single plugin's UI (a la Logic and Studio One)?
18. Since you guys seem to be admitting that the Take Lanes in X2 were not as fully realized as they could have been (which you've clearly corrected in X3 - good work here, it looks great), why are X2 customers being asked to upgrade to X3 to get the fully-developed Take Lanes functionality they thought they were buying in X2?
18. Most importantly: how much less will Sonar X3 crash compared to prior versions? Is there any data on this? 
19. I see in the blog post that "Several longstanding plugin compatibility issues were also addressed," my first response is: very good move, and better late than never. My question is: why weren't these "longstanding issues" addressed sooner? VST plugin support has existed in Sonar for a very long time.
 
The above list is fairly comprehensive in terms of what I, as a longtime customer, would like to see addressed by this, or future Sonar releases.
 
VST3 and fixing Take Lanes are welcome additions to Sonar, but the latter should have been included in an X2 update IMO, and the combination of the two aren't enough for me to upgrade. I also think it's great that Studio and Producer finally seem to include all the same features (question 20: is POW-R dithering now included in Studio?), so kudos to that as well. In terms of the included plugins: I don't need any of them so they do nothing in terms of making want to upgrade. 

hockeyjx
There are SO many variables in different software/hardware setups that can take the train off the tracks. And it could be so benign that no other symptoms point to it.
 
I've had a machine that drove me out of my mind over a bad vid card (and I put machines together for living at the time). And I replaced it because it failed at a later point and BAM... all the issues I had went away. So, it is possible, that a component or other program causes issues in Sonar. That said, I don't discredit what you say, but if <10% of users have a specific issue, it logically points to a certain scenario or configuration. And what any of this does NOT do is eliminate your frustration.

 
Bad hardware will usually effect more than one piece of software. You'll generally have crashes and blue screens while doing all kinds of stuff, as anyone who ever had a bad video card will know.
 
Some of the Sonar issues I point to above (numbers 1-4) aren't things where I get comparable bugs in the two other hosts I use, both of which are much more stable. And again, these bugs have exhibited themselves through at least 6 systems and 6 OS'es. Searching the Cakewalk forums will show that there are a large number (not necessarily large percentage) of users who at one time or another have experienced these intermittent issues. 
 
I've been involved with large software development from planning, to requirement writing, to QA, and User Acceptance Testing, all the way to release, and post-release support, and all the above would seems point to an issue in the code. Intermittent bugs are the most difficult to reproduce and therefore track down, but it doesn't mean it's the user's system at fault, it most likely means there's something going on somewhere in the code that presents itself in rare situations. The problem is that as a customer, I don't care why I can't record because Sonar thinks my Disk May Be Full, or why a project got corrupted, I just care that it happened. 

$149.00 just to upgrade a program (X2a) I have not even had much of a chance to use yet? Really, Cakewalk, or should I say Roland? Do we really have to keep paying the $149 "license fee" each year just to get some bug fixes and a few new features we may never even use (no matter how nice and usable they are for some users)???? Do you think that all musicians who use your software are made of money??? Perhaps I should skip getting my broken tooth repaired, or having some repairs to the house done and just upgrade now. Maybe if I give up eating for a month so I can afford the upgrade? Or, perhaps just cancel cable, electricity, or phone service? Maybe I can skip some insurance payments, or sell a guitar?
 
OH, I know... I can call the government and ask for some more disability benefits to help pay for X3, I am sure they will be glad to help. I guess I will have to owe someone something if I want to upgrade before I get back into the studio.
 
I am really disappointed in Cakewalk. They don't care one bit about customer satisfaction. Not the same Cakewalk I signed up for years ago.
 
!--END-RANT--!

I want an X2b - NOT X3 for MORE money!!

 
{as George H.W. Bush said in my best Dana Carvey voice}
Read my lips
Ain goan happun

ELsMystERy
$149.00 just to upgrade a program (X2a) I have not even had much of a chance to use yet? Really, Cakewalk, or should I say Roland?

 
 Have you been hibernating
 
 

ELsMystERy
Do we really have to keep paying the $149 "license fee" each year just to get some bug fixes and a few new features we may never even use (no matter how nice and usable they are for some users)????

 
Er... no.
 
Surely it's up to you what you spend your money on.
 
 

ELsMystERy
Do you think that all musicians who use your software are made of money??? Perhaps I should skip getting my broken tooth repaired, or having some repairs to the house done and just upgrade now. Maybe if I give up eating for a month so I can afford the upgrade? Or, perhaps just cancel cable, electricity, or phone service? Maybe I can skip some insurance payments, or sell a guitar?
 

 
The same applies to the guys and gals who work for Cakewalk.
 
 

Funkybot
 
I've been involved with large software development from planning, to requirement writing, to QA, and User Acceptance Testing, all the way to release, and post-release support, and all the above would seems point to an issue in the code. Intermittent bugs are the most difficult to reproduce and therefore track down, but it doesn't mean it's the user's system at fault, it most likely means there's something going on somewhere in the code that presents itself in rare situations. The problem is that as a customer, I don't care why I can't record because Sonar thinks my Disk May Be Full, or why a project got corrupted, I just care that it happened. [/quote=Funkybot]

My opinion is that there are issues, but when you have people that aren't necessarily tech savvy(and can't configure boxes or afford proper hardware), it exacerbates the "this software doesn't work" phenomenon

Looking at the new features, it hardly justifies spending 149 to get only a couple that should have been included in X2b.
 
I have comment beside each new feature.

NEW! Skylight Interface enhancements and color customizations - YAWN. They could have improved Skylight without charging us. Not worth the $149 upgrade for color customizations. I don't use software because it looks pretty, I use it because it helps get the job done.

NEW! Assemble the perfect performance with breakthrough comping workflow - Never needed this before, but could be interesting.

NEW! Full support for VST3 synths and effects - Should have been a standard feature in X2b. Not worth the $149 upgrade. I don't even have any VST3 plugins yet.

NEW! Gobbler cloud saving and sharing - NO NEED FOR THIS.

NEW! Get authentic drums sounds with the full version of XLN Audio Addictive Drums - ALREADY HAVE IT. Not paying for it again.

NEW! Play vintage piano sounds with AAS Lounge Lizard Session - ALREADY have piano synths. I would rather upgrade them.

NEW! Have a session guitar player with you at all times with AAS Strum Acoustic Session - I am a guitar player. I HATE simulated guitar. Using this would be a crime against nature. Perhaps CW will give me a discount if they don't include this?

NEW! Craft the perfect vocal performances with Melodyne Essential - This one is simple: learn how to sing in tune. People had to do that long before pitch correction software was invented.

NEW! Sculpt your mixes with precision using the new QuadCurve EQ Zoom with Analyzer - Already have a bunch of EQs and analyzers.

NEW! Fine tune your mixes with the 19 included Nomad Factory Blue Tubes FX - Got plenty of effects already (UAD2, IK, Voxengo, etc...). I have been trying to save up to upgrade a few UAD2 plugins. Cakewalk wants to rob me of that now?

NEW! Access Vintage-style world-class reverb with Nomad Factory BlueVerb - Got plenty of high quality reverbs. Do I really need to spend $149 for another one?

NEW! Get incredible filter and distortion effects with Tone2 BiFilter 2 - REALLY? Another distortion plugin? If I can't get the right distortion with what I have, then perhaps I should not be using distortion on anything.

NEW! 57 total FX including the new Boutique Suite plus everything in SONAR X3 Studio - How many FX do I really need to have to choose from AND "everything in SONAR X3 Studio": DUH!

SteveStrummerUK

ELsMystERy
$149.00 just to upgrade a program (X2a) I have not even had much of a chance to use yet? Really, Cakewalk, or should I say Roland?

 
 Have you been hibernating
 
I have been busy with other things.
 

ELsMystERy
Do we really have to keep paying the $149 "license fee" each year just to get some bug fixes and a few new features we may never even use (no matter how nice and usable they are for some users)????

 
Er... no.
 
Surely it's up to you what you spend your money on.
 
SNEER! What a way to try to interrupt a perfectly good rant.
 
 

ELsMystERy
Do you think that all musicians who use your software are made of money??? Perhaps I should skip getting my broken tooth repaired, or having some repairs to the house done and just upgrade now. Maybe if I give up eating for a month so I can afford the upgrade? Or, perhaps just cancel cable, electricity, or phone service? Maybe I can skip some insurance payments, or sell a guitar?
 

 
The same applies to the guys and gals who work for Cakewalk.
 
Then maybe they should have to pay for their own updates as well.
 
 

X3 is out, and the Whaaaambulance is leaving the scene.....