eph221
 
how ridiculous.  Learn the rules to forget them.  you must be a poly tickian.

Did I say forget? I don't believe I did. I said knowing a rule in no way forces one to adhere to it.
 
Now here's a better question. Are you as snarky to complete strangers you disagree with face to face as you've been with me in the last 24 hours? Did I urinate in your cornflakes while I was sleepwalking or something? If so I apologize but why are you being such a dick to me?

JohanSebatianGremlin

eph221
 
how ridiculous.  Learn the rules to forget them.  you must be a poly tickian.

Did I say forget? I don't believe I did. I said knowing a rule in no way forces one to adhere to it.
 
Now here's a better question. Are you as snarky to complete strangers you disagree with face to face as you've been with me in the last 24 hours? Did I urinate in your cornflakes while I was sleepwalking or something? If so I apologize but why are you being such a dick to me?

troll.

Come on peeps play nice, no need for name calling etc.  Keep it civil thank you. 

This thread was doomed from the get go ...
Folks do you honestly think I'm gonna listen to anybody tell me how to play the guitar well when there is no evidence of the guitar playing to back the $hit up ? need I say more  ?
 
Kenny

JohanSebatianGremlin
... 
The suggestion in the above statement is that gaining new knowledge somehow forces one to completely forget old knowledge. And as I said, that notion is absolute hogwash. You don't forget how to walk when you learn how to drive.

I believe you are mis-representing things badly. It has nothing to do with "forgetting" any more than it does anything else.
 
For your knowledge, some of the folks that helped "create" what became known as "krautrock" were a bit older than teenagers, in college and were music students at an extremely high level ... but that did not make any difference, for any of them ... they still went out and created something new, that you do not believe is possible. What you are saying is that a Damo Suzuki is not possible and not valid as an "instrument" (as an example!), and that is grossly out of line and unfair.
 
I'm sorry that you think it's "obnoxious", and I will gladly send you mirrors for Christmas, and a makeup kit, if you wish. And before you assume someone is wrong, at least be honest enough to ask what is meant, and the like. it would be the polite thing to do! I just happen to be way less afraid and happen to enjoy experiments, specially when the 1960's and 1970's had a very big scene in Europe about the "voice was an instrument" and "noise" is also music. As a famous composer said ... you take one hammer and hit it, and it's a noise/noisy. You play with it and add an effect, that changes into "sound". You add 5 hammers, and you have what is known as "music" ... and even a melodic content is possible.
 
(And, of course, you add 10 more hammers, and you have a "symphony"!!!!!!! Bapu is conducting! Craig is the stage/prop master!Strummy and Mooch are some of the hammerists!)
 

kennywtelejazz
This thread was doomed from the get go ...
Folks do you honestly think I'm gonna listen to anybody tell me how to play the guitar well when there is no evidence of the guitar playing to back the $hit up ? need I say more  ?
 
Kenny

Reminds me of two examples ... about the inner trip. Carlos Castaneda is the best one, when in one of the last books, he asked don Juan if the drugs were needed ... "of course not, you idiot. We just had to shut you up enough for you to see something else!" ... and the forget everything you know school comes from Gurdjieff and T. Lobsamb Rampa. However, that "forget" everything is something that even Lynn Andrews and other "new age'ists" conformed to. it does not mean "literally" that you have to forget anything, but some folks think that they have to be dumb and stupid? Heck ... we did when we were sucking a joint!

Moshkito

JohanSebatianGremlin
... 
The suggestion in the above statement is that gaining new knowledge somehow forces one to completely forget old knowledge. And as I said, that notion is absolute hogwash. You don't forget how to walk when you learn how to drive.

I believe you are mis-representing things badly. It has nothing to do with "forgetting" any more than it does anything else.
 
For your knowledge, some of the folks that helped "create" what became known as "krautrock" were a bit older than teenagers, in college and were music students at an extremely high level ... but that did not make any difference, for any of them ... they still went out and created something new, that you do not believe is possible. What you are saying is that a Damo Suzuki is not possible and not valid as an "instrument" (as an example!), and that is grossly out of line and unfair.
 
I'm sorry that you think it's "obnoxious", and I will gladly send you mirrors for Christmas, and a makeup kit, if you wish. And before you assume someone is wrong, at least be honest enough to ask what is meant, and the like. it would be the polite thing to do! I just happen to be way less afraid and happen to enjoy experiments, specially when the 1960's and 1970's had a very big scene in Europe about the "voice was an instrument" and "noise" is also music. As a famous composer said ... you take one hammer and hit it, and it's a noise/noisy. You play with it and add an effect, that changes into "sound". You add 5 hammers, and you have what is known as "music" ... and even a melodic content is possible.
 
(And, of course, you add 10 more hammers, and you have a "symphony"!!!!!!! Bapu is conducting! Craig is the stage/prop master!Strummy and Mooch are some of the hammerists!)
 

With all due respect, I believe you're either confusing me for someone else or perhaps I was not clear enough and you are grossly misunderstanding what I was intending to say. Where did I suggest that experimentation was not possible? Also I have no idea what a Damo Susuki is so I'm not sure where I said it was not possible nor where I said it was not a valid instrument.  I'm also not sure I used the word 'obnoxious' in reference to anything in this thread but I suppose I could be wrong.
 
For clarity purposes, here is what I was trying to say. I have heard people suggest the notion that learning music theory can have a limiting effect on a person's creativity. I have heard people suggest the notion that learning music theory can have a negative impact on a person's ability to write 'good' i.e. popular music. Lets just say I do not personally believe either notion to be true. That is what I was saying and nothing more. 

craigb
Leg one - Knowledge of your chosen instrument.
You should understand how............
 

 
I agree, but would also say...- that's a lot to expect of yourelf at once.
Here's 1 small snapshot of my 30 year journey with guitar:  The guitar in the picture you see to the left is a 1996 taylor 612 c  "cotton".  My friend who has been a huge Taylor fan and collector pointed it out to me and said if I didn't grab it he would.  He mentioned it had already aged, was probably owned by a collector due to its wonderful condition, and also had a great story behind its inception 20 years ago.  That was in march of this year.  It was only last night during a practice session, after a few string changes and many sessions (this year) that I started to hear and understand some specific things the guitar did, in relation to how I play and vice versa.  We are becoming more "symbiotic". 
 
My point in this is that you can get the greatest setup in the world, and it will simply be waiting for you to grow into it.  If you get 20 great setups, you will have 20 great setups waiting for you to spend time building relationships with the tools.  
 
Here's another snapshot:  I had been at the instrument for a good 18 years.  Then all of a sudden, I went through some life drama, and went into my little music hole.  I said to myself, "why aren't you better"?  "What if you got really really good?"  So - I purposely sought out some books that intrigued me on technique, and completely submerged myself for hours after work every day, either learning from "Jody Fischers 30 Day Guitar Workout", or a bunch of Steve Morse or Eric Johnson stuff... things I really liked.  I also started learning songwriting and production "Cakewalk".  The nuts and bolts of how I operate guitar and teach it are Directly Related to this period of my life, and equation - the wisdom of these authors and time I spent in their teachings - multiplied by my own practice.  
 
I realized, not only did I probably incite said life drama, because these 2 questions were waiting for me to ask them of myself, but after a short time, when I saw my ability to operate the guitar, and music in general completely evolve that I was on a destinationless journey, and that I could go as far as I wanted, and now I knew how much time it would take to get real results... something that I had never known over my 18 years of playing guitar, countless gigs, and tours.  Now I knew how to be patient and faithful in my practice.  Faithful - meaning that if I kept pressing into the wall, eventually something would come out the other side.
 
 

craigb
 Leg two - Music theory.
...........
 
 

 
Yes - and I don't want to say who cares, but - let the theory you learn serve you - not encumber you with things you won't employ.
 

craigb
Leg three - Ear training.
This falls into two camps:  Absolute pitch and relative pitch.......

 
Absolute pitch meaning "perfect pitch"?  I wouldn't waste one second of your life trying to develop perfect pitch if you were not born with it.  I would spend your time learning relative pitch as it is the most useful tool you will ever learn...   
 
Relative pitch is about "relationships".  Unless it is a solo... there has to be some kind of relationship.   It should be at the VERY CENTER of how you process melodic and chordal relationships.   
 

craigb
Leg four - Song theory.
 This area includes song structure, verses, choruses, codas, bridges, intros, outros, time signatures, melody, harmony, soloing, song writing, orchestrating, etc.

Sure - this is kind of music theory though... once you get through how whole notes work... youll want to put that all into a song structure=-)
 
One thing that I didn't see in your original post was the Study of Time.  When it comes to technique, nothing will get you there faster than the study of technique and time.   Here is an article I did talking about this http://www.guitarworld.co...-drummers-art-recovery

Hmm, well...
 
I was in catering for 12 years and can cook really well, but I'm not a chef.
 
I've been playing guitar for quite the number of years now but am not a musician and tbph I still have no idea what music is.
 
So I shall add the following idea to your table: have fun! :-)  Perhaps this could be a vase of flowers on top of the table; for sure the legs on mine are pretty wonky.

JohanSebatianGremlin

Moshkito

JohanSebatianGremlin
... 
The suggestion in the above statement is that gaining new knowledge somehow forces one to completely forget old knowledge. And as I said, that notion is absolute hogwash. You don't forget how to walk when you learn how to drive.

I believe you are mis-representing things badly. It has nothing to do with "forgetting" any more than it does anything else.
 
For your knowledge, some of the folks that helped "create" what became known as "krautrock" were a bit older than teenagers, in college and were music students at an extremely high level ... but that did not make any difference, for any of them ... they still went out and created something new, that you do not believe is possible. What you are saying is that a Damo Suzuki is not possible and not valid as an "instrument" (as an example!), and that is grossly out of line and unfair.
 
I'm sorry that you think it's "obnoxious", and I will gladly send you mirrors for Christmas, and a makeup kit, if you wish. And before you assume someone is wrong, at least be honest enough to ask what is meant, and the like. it would be the polite thing to do! I just happen to be way less afraid and happen to enjoy experiments, specially when the 1960's and 1970's had a very big scene in Europe about the "voice was an instrument" and "noise" is also music. As a famous composer said ... you take one hammer and hit it, and it's a noise/noisy. You play with it and add an effect, that changes into "sound". You add 5 hammers, and you have what is known as "music" ... and even a melodic content is possible.
 
(And, of course, you add 10 more hammers, and you have a "symphony"!!!!!!! Bapu is conducting! Craig is the stage/prop master!Strummy and Mooch are some of the hammerists!)
 

With all due respect, I believe you're either confusing me for someone else or perhaps I was not clear enough and you are grossly misunderstanding what I was intending to say. Where did I suggest that experimentation was not possible? Also I have no idea what a Damo Susuki is so I'm not sure where I said it was not possible nor where I said it was not a valid instrument.  I'm also not sure I used the word 'obnoxious' in reference to anything in this thread but I suppose I could be wrong.
 
For clarity purposes, here is what I was trying to say. I have heard people suggest the notion that learning music theory can have a limiting effect on a person's creativity. I have heard people suggest the notion that learning music theory can have a negative impact on a person's ability to write 'good' i.e. popular music. Lets just say I do not personally believe either notion to be true. That is what I was saying and nothing more. 

 
For clarity purposes, you are totally wrong! But who cares.  Please quit trolling this forum.  Guitar teachers are a dime a dozen.  Most aren't worthy of calling themselves that.  They can be  predatory in many ways, not the least of which is  malpractice.  Just because one is a *professional* and knows *theory* doesn't make one a teacher.  And it's these people I'm talking about.  Theory can indeed get in the way when it's taught wrong.  Your argument is in itself an example of chauvenistic teaching in the at the theory can be isolated from the musical experience as some kind of logical concept.  Not everyone thinks this way if you haven't figured that out yet.