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  • Console Emulation Question?? (p.3)
2013/09/27 08:54:57
michaelhanson
There's Craig's blog that I received on Facebook yesterday.  I have not found a good way to post links or do quotes from my iPad, it does n't seem to open up the full version reply very well.
 
I think one of the most important things that Craig states in this video, and I have heard the Bakers say this as well, is that you mix into the console, instead of adding it later.  It makes a big difference to me, because you are making compression, EQ and effects decisions based on how the signal is passing through the CE.  The reason I was understanding that it works best in the last position is because it was stated at one point that it was a summing effect that was being emulated.  Therefore, in my mind, everything that you wanted to sum, would have to pass through it.
 
On the Master, it make sense to me that your Limiter would be the last plug in the signal chain; for those that Master all in the same session of song.  If you pull it into another Mastering Program to do your mastering, then everything would already be summed in your wav file before you add any last position limiting anyway.  
2013/09/27 09:05:32
Beepster
I find the "Mix Into It" method to be a little... well misleading. They say mix into then turn all the CE modules off at once and you'll hear the difference.
 
Well of course you'll hear a difference and of course with the CEs turned on again it will sound better... BECAUSE you mixed into it. I think Danny and I were discussing this (I like the CE, he doesn't). If you are using that method there is no real way to tell if the CE is having a positive effect on the mix. I think the only REAL way to test it, and it still wouldn't be terribly accurate, is to mix a version of the song without the CE at all then mix another with the CE and compare the two. In fact do this with a bunch of tunes so you have a samplegroup to compare. Some may sound better some may sound worse.
 
Personally I think it sounds good when I'm trying to do more "classic/vintage" sounding stuff. Gives it a bit of sizzle/warmth/grit. However as Danny pointed out there are many other ways to achieve the exact same effect the CE provides and I believe him. I just find it's an easy thing to slap on to a vocal or guitar track to make it sound like I recorded it in an old timey hardware studio. For some drums it works, others I find it screws up the sound. If I use it for drums I'll usually just toss it on the bus. On the individual tracks, depending on the drum/sample, I find it can make the hits kind of thin or the sound break up a bit then it harder to work with.
 
Again JMO and YMMV.
2013/09/27 09:10:34
Beepster
I guess the one thing about "mixing into" the CE though is that'll it will lead you to make different decisions/adjustments as you mix. Therefore your mix might end up sound more vintage because you are making adjustments similar to ones you would on a hardware console.
 
I think it's a really interesting effect with far more depth in regards to application than meets the eye. I don't know why it fascinates me so much but it just does. I'm weird. ;-)
2013/09/27 09:58:07
jb101
What can I say.  Experimentation is good, and so trying out the CE in various places is important.
 
But if you want to use the CE in the way it was intended, by it's developer, Overloud, then put it last in the chain.
 
I have not discussed it with Danny, although I know he is not a fan, but I have talked to Overloud, and been involved in threads in which Noel and Craig Anderton have suggested using it last.  I have also watched Brandon and Seth do the same, and see that Cakewalk have always put them last.  We are free to ignore them, it's up to us, but I'm prepared to take their word for it, especially Overloud, who surely had some idea about it when they programmed the module.
 
Just my penny's worth.
 
Anyway, back to wild speculation about the up an coming X3..
2013/09/27 10:20:52
SvenArne
Anyone noticed that the API emulation can introduce an "digital aliasing" type distortion on some sources?
2013/09/27 10:22:34
Beepster
Sure and whatever works works but there was a discrepancy between what folks were saying about how it should be used (at the start vs. end of the PC which is what this thread is about). To me though it only makes sense if you were TRULY trying to make it act as a hardware console you'd take into account what point in the signal chain the CE appears. It does make a big difference (to my ears at least).
 
But that's not exactly how I use it anyway because as I said I find for certain things it just makes things harder. Like on some snare tracks for example. I'm not sure how to describe it but it kind of weakens the attack and thins it out a little making it harder to mess with with stuff like a compressor. Is it all in my head? Perhaps but I hear it and that to me makes it worth going through and figuring out where it is working and where it is not more like an actual effect and not using it to blanket the entire mix. I mean sometimes in big studios they'll use different boards with different pres or whatever to color things just so. That's a little more how I approach.
 
Actually the fact I became so curious about the CE really helped me with understanding module and FX bin placement as well as Post vs. Pre type stuff. Before I was all "Okay WTF is all this going? Where the heck should I have these modules set up?". Now it makes a lot more sense.
2013/09/27 10:24:14
Beepster
SvenArne
Anyone noticed that the API emulation can introduce an "digital aliasing" type distortion on some sources?




I'm not sure what that means but I have experienced some "odd" effects at times. Like the signal is breaking up. I definitely do not use it on tracks where that is happening.
2013/09/27 10:26:38
bandso
If you are looking for real world setting "analog vibe", wouldn't a tape sim come first. Next add effects so it acts like a line level "insert send/receive" on the back of a real console. That then that feeds into the console emu (for preamp color) then the eq's and other effects, finally the fader. 
On the master fader something like a buss comp, console emu, and then a master tape sim, room correction(Arc 2)
 
However I'm drawing a blank here. Does a real console's line insert come before or after the console preamp. I think it is before, but I may be mistaken.
 
 
An of course use your ears. That's the be all, end all.
2013/09/27 10:36:55
Beepster
@Bandso... Yeah, the tape sim makes sense. I was about to say Isn't that more for Master bus to emulate stereo out type thing but then remembered the multitrack tape aspect of old studios. Frankly I never really understood tape stuff. Too confusing for my peabrain and I'm glad I don't have to deal with it. I'll probably have to learn though if I intend to understand tape sims. Just haven't had the chance yet.
2013/09/27 10:40:13
Beepster
bandso
 
 
However I'm drawing a blank here. Does a real console's line insert come before or after the console preamp. I think it is before, but I may be mistaken.
 
 



I think it may vary and in some cases be a Post/Pre scenario like the FX Bin or Sends modules. I can't remember if my board has a button for that. Haven't used it in ages and I really kept it to the basics when I did. It's set back up again now though and I intend to use it to get some REAL console color into stuff. Not sure how well that'll turn out but it is a rather nice board.
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