Hello All--
 
I recently read about how you get better resolution when recording at higher levels (or you lose it at lower levels, more accurately), and it lead me to wonder about tracks that were recorded at a good level, but not an optimal level...
 
Will adding gain to the audio file increase the resolution before mix-down if it's not recorded from the source at the optimum level, or is that resolution gone forever? My guess would be it's gone forever, but I'd like a more knowledgeable answer.
 
I'm guessing this is a good question for Bit Flipper...

This is something I have believed in and still do...but there are many on this forum who disagree with my opinion and you will see them here disputing it.  One thing to remember is that each piece of outboard equipment has an optimal operating level, this is when the pre-amp or the microphone really hums.  You can hear a certain silkiness when you hit this level, if you are worrying about a signal that is too hot going into your DAW (not too hot that you clip the convertors) you will never get to this optimal level.  What u need to do and this is what I do, is use the trim within the DAW's mixer to reset the signal to the optimal level for mixing once you have recorded.  There is also a theory and it's only a theory that there is even an optimal level at which to record into your convertors.  Again it will be hotly disputed here on this forum but my recordings and mixes all seem to stack up these days and I use both these theories.
 
Ben  

If it sounds better, then that's all that matters. I guess my question is more on the physics of it. I don't want to take (more) time adding gain the decent takes if it's just going to make it louder and not add to the resolution.
 
Make sense?

Once something is sampled at a particular resolution, nothing on Earth will be able to sample that again and somehow make that initial resolution better.
 
I am not talking about any device's alleged sweet spot, one way or the other - I am just referring to affecting the original sample's resolution.  If you have a cassette recording, and it is grainy, turning up the volume will not make it sound any less grainy.  It will just amplify the original sound.
 
In my opinion, 
 
Bob Bone
 

Yes higher peak input levels technically make better use of the available resolution if the signal has a wide dynamic range; the question is at what point it matters when recording typical sources at 24 bits. Most would say if you RMS is hovering around -18dB, you're golden. But you'd have to be recording with peaks all they way down at -48dB to even be falling into 16-bit territory. So the digital sweet spot is pretty wide, and signal to noise ratio in the acoustic environment gets to be an issue long before you run out of digital resolution at 24 bits.
 
The value of higher bit depths is in maintaining good resolution at the low end of the dynamic range. Since dynamic range is the enemy of THE ENDLESS QUEST FOR MORE LOUDNESS, most modern musicians don't need to worry about it. 

There are 3 pieces to this:
 
1. Recording/analog-to-digital conversion: This may be what you're thinking of, but there is a major caveat - once the noise floor of your analog signal hitting the converters is more than a little bit above the resolution of the converter, adding more gain does not give you any more resolution whatsoever. Note that with 24bit conversion you can have a huge range where this is the case and effectively makes this a non issue. It's much more important to avoid clipping here.
 
2. Inside the DAW: Once your signal enters Sonar (or most other DAWs), it is converted to 32bit floating point (or higher). Under floating point math the resolution is independent of signal level. 
 
3. Exiting Sonar: When leaving Sonar either via an audio interface or exporting to a 16 or 24bit file, being reasonably close to the top of the available range can be advantageous, as much from an analog noise floor perspective as digital (because if the listener cranks up the volume in the analog domain they amplify the analog noise as well).
 
But if someone is thinking of using a limiter/maximizer to try to get more resolution they will end up distorting the loudest, easiest to hear part of the signal in order to supposedly get more resolution in the part of the signal that's almost always inaudible under typical listening conditions anyway. This is obviously not a sensible trade off to make.

I'll agree along with Bob in that once it's in the box, that's the resolution you have. End of story.

so if you have good trks already in the box and want them to "have more resolution", I wouldn't see any purpose in this. I would want to get the highest resolution when going in the box.

Yup--that's what I thought. I appreciate all the answers and they make total sense. Fortunately none of my tracks are at such a low level as to degrade their quality, it's just that I started recording this particular project prior to reading about the whole bit depth/resolution thing.
 
Now I watch my record levels closer when tracking--so I get the best quality digital has to offer.
 
I lot of helpful answers--thanks!

razor
Yup--that's what I thought. I appreciate all the answers and they make total sense. Fortunately none of my tracks are at such a low level as to degrade their quality, it's just that I started recording this particular project prior to reading about the whole bit depth/resolution thing.
 
Now I watch my record levels closer when tracking--so I get the best quality digital has to offer.
 
I lot of helpful answers--thanks!

Razor I learned long ago to get the best possible signal when recording. I got this from recording at home on tape decks of various kinds. If you didn't get a good hot signal in the beginning, the noise floor would eat you alive towards the end!
 
But that said, if your trks are just too low in volume, you can try to add some gain and see if it accomplishes what you are going for. I know I sometimes do this just to see what I will get out of it. And most times, the noise floor for that trk is low enough to allow for some gain increase.
 
Just give it a try and see.

There is a thoroughly decent article in this months SOS written by Matt Houghton on the whole subject of Gain Staging.
 
It's well worth a read if your current knowledge is a little sketchy.