• SONAR
  • Sound crash after recording Sonar X2Producer
2013/09/12 10:38:38
veli3kuu
Hello, I will ask You help for my problem. I´m record, mixing and  mastering some wave musicrecord with Adobe Audition 3.01 and the average volume is about -11. No I try boost volume about +1 more with Sonar X2 Producer. The record success full and no crash founds
by recording. After I´m saved the "new" wave and after this I´m heard in Media Player etc. it´s  crash. The crashes is not so big in lower place as in bigger places. No help if I´m set the volume lower in Media Player. So the problem is by rekording in SONAR? If I´m lower +2 db
(also-2) by recording, crashes not happend. And if I´m load new the firstone rekord in Adobe,
and then boost volume +1 no crashes found?
_veli
2013/09/12 10:54:43
bitflipper
Hi, veli, and welcome to the forum.
 
I think we have a language problem that needs to be sorted before any advice can be given. I'm guessing the word "crash" isn't what you mean. Do you mean "clipping" or "overs"? Maybe a picture would help; try taking a screenshot and posting it.
2013/09/12 13:59:49
veli3kuu
Yes, It is s somekind "clipping" and "over"
-Veli
2013/09/12 19:17:14
bitflipper
OK, so you record something in Audition and the average levels are -11dB. So far so good. What are the peak levels?
 
-11dB is actually a pretty good average RMS for most material, perhaps a little loud but that depends on the type of music. If it's modern electronic dance music, that's a genre that expects very high RMS values. I'll assume that's where you're going, and that -11dB is too quiet for you.
 
If you're getting audible distortion after raising the volume, it's because your peaks are exceeding 0dBFS. You just can't do that without making it sound bad. In order to increase the perceived volume, you need to raise the average while limiting the peaks to under 0dB. For that, you need a limiter.
 
If you insert a limiter (such as SONAR's Concrete Limiter) into the master bus, it will prevent the peaks from exceeding acceptable levels. You can then push up the volume without uncontrolled clipping. You may still hear ugly artifacts if you push it too hard. That's because you're distorting the waveform, possibly resulting in aliasing. The trick is pushing it just hard enough to achieve your desired loudness without going too far.
 
There are lots of other tricks for getting a mix louder, such as bus compression and multiband compressors and selective EQ, but start with a limiter first.
2013/09/13 05:47:33
veli3kuu
Hello,
Thanks. I have mastering about 10 years music and I know this things (limiter etc.)
Therefore I dont understand why as I record in SONAR Producer so by itself recording
nothing clippin heards? And same situation is when I denn play in SONAR this
track, nothing clipps? But after I´m saved this same recording to CD or to some other
program (Audition, Audacity..) then clippings appears? Same situation is I´m used
limiter or not in SONAR with recording. And why not clipping happend if I´m reise even the volume +3db in Adobe and without any limiter with same original track ( wave, song etc.)? Why must I in SONAR reise down the mastervolume by recording -2 - -3 db so that no clippins appears? (I,m sorry my language is not well, hope You understand what I meaning). Mystery!
-Veli
2013/09/13 12:28:17
bitflipper
You will usually not hear the effect of clipping in SONAR because in the 32-bit floating-point world within the DAW it's possible to exceed 0dBFS without distortion. The distortion only becomes apparent when you export as 16- or 24-bit integer data. At that time the 0dB limit becomes an absolute ceiling you cannot cross without clipping. This principle applies to both SONAR and Audition, both of which are internally 32-bit float.
 
This brings us back to the role of the limiter. Its job is to enforce the limit before it becomes an audible problem. If you set the limiter's brickwall limit to -1dB, whether in SONAR or in Audition, then there should be no audible clipping. However, at that point there will also be no headroom left for raising it any further, whether you move it to another DAW or not.
2013/09/15 07:47:18
veli3kuu
Yes, Thanks again. I recorded some files as earlier (they clipping)  in SONAR Producer (32-bit )and then I loaded this to Adobe (also 32-bit) and played AND NO CLIPPING OCCURS! Then I converting this i Adobe to 16-bit and saved to CD and NO CLIPPING. And sounds good!
-Veli
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