I am facing a strange problem with my Sonar XI Producer for quite some time, when i render a file the audio changes from the original that i mixed/mastered e.g the vocals level reduces with an extra Reverb in it etc., can anyone help me with that, thx!
 
Regards
Farhan Albert

Welcome to the forum!
By rendering, do you mean exporting or bouncing/freezing? To be able to make any guesses I'd have to know
exactly what you're doing, what effects and where. Are you listening to the rendered audio in SONAR or maybe in WMP? If you are listening to an exported wav on Windows Media Player, check that WMP does not have any FX on. If the dropping level of vocals takes place in exporting, how do you control the level when you export? What is the RMS level of your Master Bus (everything should be routed through Master Bus).
Check carefully the singal route. Is there an FX on the Master bus or somewhere which gets doubled, when you listen to audio which has been bounced or re-imported to the project?

Sorry for late reply, yeah by rendering i mean exporting or mixing down the audio, and yes i apply the mastering plugins on my master Bus and listen to the audio through various players but it sounds the same, its not that WMP or any player makes it sound this way, i have noticed carefully and found out that the rest of the tracks sound ok but why only vocals sounds different (levels go down with extra Reverb) is may be because of the Reverb plugin (Using BREVERB by OVER LOUD) that i am using, which i only use for vocals and don't use it at all otherwise and i think that is causing the problem, i insert it on the Bus and then apply it on my vocal tracks through Insert send, and when i insert it, the Dry signal of the Reverb is at the end and i raise it to 0.0 db, is it right??, but the strange thing that i'm gonna tell you now is that, if i'm doing anything wrong then why i don't face this problem when i export the same file through Sonar 8.5??? 

- First, make sure only the Master bus is routed to Main Outs, and everything else in the project goes through the Master bus.
- Create a new track called Master Bounce and route it direct to Main Outs.
- Bounce the Master bus to the Master Bounce track.
- Group the Master Bounce and Master bus solo buttons with one enabled and one disabled, and A/B them as you play the project.
- If you hear a drastic difference, you need to look harder at your output routing and/or bounce selections.
- If you don't hear much or any difference, the next step is to ungroup and disable the solo buttons, invert the phase on the Master Bounce track,  and play both sources back together.
- You should hear something resembling silence, possibly with some stray hits/artifacts because unfrozen synths and FX may not produce exactly the same output every time. If you freeze everything before bouncing, you should get perfect nulling.
- If you get good nulling in SONAR by this method, export the Master Bounce track, and any significant difference you hear on another system (notwithstanding the effects of sample/bit-rate reductions and lossy compression) is due to that system's altering the signal, using different monitors, or being heard in a different environment.
 
 
 
 

Hi Farhan Albert
 
I think I have the same issue too (Sonar x2). I think I touched on it in a post a while back, but can't remember when or where.
 
When I do the 'null test' (I think it's called?) ... in other words. I 'bounce to track' all the audio, then reverse the phase on the newly bounced track (ensuring it's going straight out to the soundcard/interface and not to the master buss which could have effects on it) and press 'play'. All being well, there should be no sound at all, as, if the tracks have bounced properly, reversing the phase on the newly bounced track should completely cancel out the 'mix' playing them together in real time.
 
But, on doing that, I sometimes end up hearing what sounds like a %100 wet reverb version of the vocal or whatever track has a certain reverb plugin on it.
 
(Also happens if I 'export audio' then import it back in)
 
Having  tried various combinations of exporting/bouncing/eliminating, I've found a few reverb plugins that this seems to happen with. (although I managed to single out Slate Digital's vtm  causing an issue too.)
 
I'm not talking big heavily effected/synth laden mixes. Just vocals, couple of acoustic  guitars maybe.
 
Everything in the mix is out through the master buss. Sends going to the master buss. Reverb plugins on the sends set at %100 wet.
 
Reverb plugins it seems to happen with I've found so far are (just from memory): Redline Reverb, Lexicon PCM native reverb (vintage plate?), Ik Multimedia CSR. (Don't know about Breverb).
 
The issue is there whether the reverb is used as an insert or on a send.
 
When I use Slate Digital VTM and do the 'null' test, I hear a very short, choppy, high frequency 'stutter', but I'm not sure if that's because that particular plugin's design would throw up a bit of 'randomness' on each mix.
 
... or if, indeed, there's something like 'spin and wander' on the reverb plugins causing the 'null' test to fail. Doesn't sound like it though as it's a very clear %100 reverby version of the  track with those plugins on it when the 'null' test is done.
 
Anyone else tried this and found the same? Or, anything I'm doing wrong?

Hi brundlefly. Just noticed that I posted over the top of you. I don't think I've tried freezing the tracks before bouncing. I'll give that a go.

Because of the nature of reverb, it will definitely stand out in the difference signal if the two instances are not identical and perfectly synced. And a bounced track should always be perfectly in sync with its live source, but there are some issues with Bitbridge where this may not be the case if you're using 32-bit synths or FX in a 64-bit project.